Finally dove with DIR buddies. What a mess!

[roakey]

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
And the biggest problem with a lot of ScubaBoard Posters is that they haven't an inkling about what they don't know, but seem to think they know everything.

I was a PADI DM years ago, got the best training money could buy from PADI, and you know what, when I think back to working with those classes I'm honestly embarrased.

My instructors didn't know how to dive, so I didn't know how to dive and I didn't teach the students how to dive. I taught them how to breathe underwater, and that's about it.

PhotoTJ once bubbled...
Start your own dive certification agency, and we'll see how long you can stay in business. If PADI, NAUI, SSI, and company are that bad, then your new agency should have no problem replacing them.

Not if you're interested in quality before market share. GUE's doing exactly as you suggest, but because their focus is quality, rather than quantity, they'll never be big.

Roak

 

[perpet1]

I used to work for a diveshop where they did both general recreational diving and also hard core tech diving <no not PADI tech>. The owner taught the DIR concept to the tech divers. I have absolutly no problem with somone that subscibes to the DIR concept since it does make a good diver a better more safe diver in the water.

That all said......

Story time

I was going a night dive that was supposed to be a "fun" dive. I was solo so I had to hook up with a buddy on the boat <boat rules>. I hooked up with an older woman that seemed very nice and after talking she really knew what she was doing. It turns out that she did a lot of tech diving with the guy that owned the shop that I worked with. So it was time to get in the water and she needed help with her rig..... Remember this was going to be a tropical, very entry level, nigh dive to 50 or so feet on a reef. When I looked at her gear I have to admit I was inpressed that you could have that much stuff tucked away in a good "Captian Caveman" fassion. She was streamline in the water and really knew how to use her gear but she crossed the line from fun to work and it was obvious to talk to her after the dive. The funny thing is that she had a perfectly good rig sitting at home that would have been just as good for this type of dive and made the dive more enjoyable for her.

I guess I believe there is a time and a place for everything. If you are going to be doing a dive where you need the additional safety that DIR provides the by all means use it. If you are going to be doing a fun dive then by all means have fun. If you feel you need the additional safety that DIR provides all the time regardless of time or place then so be it but the truth of the matter is you don't. I understand the need to be familuar with your equipment but once you are at the level that you are using DIR you can just as easily switch between rigs.

My best friend uses the DIR concept when he needed it and dives for fun with a second rig when that is what he wants to do. He is one of the safest people in the water I know and understands the safety margin. He also understands that there was a point of diminishing returns as it relates to safety.

There was another post in here on another topic where a guy talked about using trimix at 80-110 feet. He stated it like it was the only way to dive to 80-100 feet. I agree he increased his safety margin as it relates to the efects os N2. One could argue that he increased his safety margin (compared to nitrox) by controlling his O2. BUT he did increase the odds of a bad mix. Was he in the end more safe? I would argure that he crossed into and beyond the point of diminishing returns. Some would argue he was less safe by imposing additional risks that were unnecessary.

I guess I am very interested in the right equipment for the right situation.

Pete

 

[diverbrian]

Hey Pete,

I agree with you and the funny thing is that I will bet that even most of the DIR divers here will agree with you. I was just reading a section in my Tech Diver Encyclopedia about the "diminishing returns" that you refer to.

He refers to things like dual bladders vs. the extra drag and whether or not a second SPG is worth the chance of having an equipment failure. If you have access to that book you may want to take a look at it.

Most of our divers (especially the ones referred to in this thread) have separate rigs for just diving the local lake/ class/ fun dives and for their deep, decompression-stop diving. I am another that follows that philosphy.

As I have said repeatedly, I am not DIR and I don't play it on TV. But, I would be sure that treating a fifty-foot night dive in the Caribbean like a 120 ft. shipwreck dive would start to take some of the fun out of the 50 ft. night dive.

Thanks for the well-worded post!

 

[Finhead_Chris]

Just got onto this board to see what the LAWMAN had to say.
Figures it would take a lawyer to stir up this much muck.
Just ribbin' ya.

I was one of those divers on that Tobermory trip.
Will admit to being a swimming "hardware store"
One of my fellow divers let me use a set of 125cu
doubles..... Took a forklift to get them from the deck
to the bench, but I was glad to have the air reserve on
some of the dives we did. Did 4 dives/day with those tanks
with the SAC rate I have( 2dive: 100+, 1d: 80Ft: SS: 25ft. ). A little overkill on the SWEEPSTAKES I will admit. Had to use a stage to balance me out due to the 50W DR MLS canister lite I was using and for practice. Was 5'7" before that weekend.
Think I am 5'5" after that weekend.
Will admit I am a candidate for the "Humor Page"

Am in the process of working on AINTD Deep Diving Certification.
This trip was mostly another chance to gain more experience with
the tech style equipment I have. My "recreational" gear would
cause some "hardcore" bottom dwellers to have fits. Adopted to
use my 7' hose with my recreational gear after some of my
encounters with panic diver/air-sharing emergencies in the past.

Tech diving opens up some new horizons that I wish to explore.
So, I will be reading this board alot and learn what I can from the
experience and mistakes of others.










Other vitals: SSI AOW 247 logged dives.

 

[diverbrian]

My dive buddy from the trip is heard from. Welcome aboard Chris! They will have fun with your sense of humor here.

 

[Finhead_Chris]

Yep.... Your partner in crime is onboard.
Hope folks miss the "chair to keyboard" typo I made.
It's not AINTD, but IANTD. $%&^$*$%&*%^


Fun board.....

 

[MikeFerrara]

Finhead_Chris,

You'll get it worked out. I prefer my doubles. I have other gear but I'm comfortable in what I wreck and cave dive in. You need to dive in it. I see no advantage to diving in the other stuff. I can gear up as fast as I need to and I can jog it down to the water. Once in a while I strap on a single tank just to see if I still can but I'd rather dive the same stuff all the time.

 

[detroit diver]

So 13 pages later, let me ask this question:

How many of the divers that Lawman saw were actually DIR trainied?

 

[diverbrian]

Of the divers in doubles that Lawman is referring to:

Zero- DIR is not a popular program in this part of the state. There are no DIR shops within about 50 miles or more. Obviously, because you are from Detroit, you are affilated with a DIR shop somehow.

I had most of my Advanced Nitrox done when I signed onto this board and had never heard the term DIR if that tells you anything. I had glanced at the GUE website.

Maybe, one or two of the other divers there had heard of DIR, but the only one who even brought up the term on the trip was Lawman.

 

[detroit diver]

So, basically, this thread was Bullsh*t from the very first premise.