Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[rjack321]

Other than complexity and cost, what do you consider the downsides of the BOV+gag strap? I would also have an OC reg available in case of something like a mouthpiece failure. Trying to get as much information as I can!

Its heavy, fiddly, one more thing to break or malfunction, have to make absolutely sure that its plugged into a suitable gas source, can't plug in hypoxic mixes on the surface. WOB on the BOV is never going to be quite as good as a real 2nd stage and the strap hinders switching to a real regulator or switching to a deco gas. The bulk of the BOV under your chin also gets in the way of a 2nd stage like a deco gas reg. Lastly the gag strap itself can loosen or dislodge your mask strap depending on which goes where.

I have a BOV and gag strap which I think is great, but its not without some negatives.

 

[Brad_Horn]

WOB on the BOV is never going to be quite as good as a real 2nd stage

This is not correct.
Both the OSEL ALVBOV and the Poseidon BOV offer comparable WOB to the highest performing OC reg. Apeks and Poseidon respectively.
Example: http://www.deeplife.co.uk/or_files/DV_DL_ALVBOV_Breathing_Params_A3_100318.pdf

If your having problems with your gag strap and mask, fit the mask under your hood. Assuming you don't already do that. Also you may find that not all BOVs get in the way when your bailed out and on a stage reg.

There is an open niche market and need for a means to plumb OC bailout hyperoxic gas to a BOV, likely through QCs as opposed a Cis-Lunar Mk5p style switch block. The catch is it needs to be CE certifiable/certified to EN250; to ensure a safe WOB for bailout is maintained. Noting that only 4? BOVs on the market actually meet EN250 for OC bailout WOB.

 

[Brad_Horn]

I find your argument on behalf of your company's co-director self-serving and wholly unconvincing. If that were so Brad, why does Deas expend so much time and grieving family's money on trying to prove the root cause of the fatality in these court cases?? The reason is obvious. He believes that if he can convince the jury that the root cause was rebreather failure because of a "design flaw", then the jury will find that the manufacturer is liable. Luckily, in every case he has been involved in, the jury has considered him proven wrong. Simon M

Simon, Very simply from a moral and ethical standpoint, it was and is the right thing to do. Hence the accident analysis and unmanned testing as was required in the Skiles case - because Dive-Rite hadn't formally done any - being conducted at a significantly discounted rate with zero profit to OSEL.
On units that have gone through a decent unmanned testing R&D process before sale, it would be irrelevant as the work would have already been done by the manufacturer, so there wouldn't be anything for Dr Alex Deas and other expert witnesses to show...

Unfortunately for Jeurgenson, Teledyne and Aii amongst other rebreather component suppliers involved in these court cases - before Dr Alex Deas was involved - they ended up settling out of court due to the complete lack of formal accident analysis and unmanned testing of the units in question. Later testing by Dr Alex Deas et al showing they were faultless with regards each particular incident. Not a good thing for the industry as a whole but something which you strangely seem to support!

You do note of course that the juries haven't considered him proven wrong at all, purely that there are other liability and legal considerations at play which outweigh the root cause of the incident. You have an Optima to play with. Take it for a dive and see what happens when the cells get wet.....

Kind regards
Brad

 

[Daedalus]

You do note of course that the juries haven't considered him proven wrong at all, purely that there are other liability and legal considerations at play which outweigh the root cause of the incident.

I dunno seems like #2 is pretty cut and dry to me.

 

[KevinNM]

You could be killed driving a car you just bought with bald tires, no brakes, a failed electrical system and the fuel tank is a glass jug in the trunk, but if the cause of death is I shot you in the head with a shotgun from the next lane the cars numerous dangerous faults didn't have very much to do with your death.

 

[chillyinCanada]

I have seen two different versions of Stewart giving a clear OK signal. One version said the clear OK was seen by the watchers on the boat and the other version said that the buddy/instructor said he saw it.

Is anyone here able to tell me which version is actually how the clear OK was seen? TIA

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

Simon, Very simply from a moral and ethical standpoint, it was and is the right thing to do.

No its not if you are ignoring multiple obvious and more plausible explanations completely beyond the control of the manufacturer in favour of conflating an explanation that is very unlikely but will unfairly focus blame back on the manufacturer.

You do note of course that the juries haven't considered him proven wrong at all

No I don't note that. He has been proven wrong on the balance of probability multiple times. Based on my previous discussions with him on various issues, I am not in the least bit surprised. The truth of this matter could not be more clearly articulated than in the post by Daedalus above.

You have an Optima to play with. Take it for a dive and see what happens when the cells get wet.....

The optima we had for research purposes has been returned to the manufacturer.

Simon M

 

[John Bantin]

I'd avoid being an expert of CCR on an Internet forum. The last person I tangled with (on Rebreather World) told me he was an expert, an airline captain even, and sadly died a week later.

 

[W W Meixner]

I only dive my RB with the KM48 full face mask. Almost all of the fatalities on RB could be avoided by retaining the DSV for a LOC event. If I pass out on the surface I won't flood the loop and may even be able to be rescued if I sink.

Masked/unmasked/BOV/standard DSV/strapped/unstrapped...not the issue...point being...diving with a hypoxic mix, they needed to perform a loop flush or to switch over to an oxygen blend stage or deco open circuit...however this task can only be performed if you have gas to do it... they had no gas left and reached the surface with a severely hypoxic mix that remained in their counter-lungs...passing out on the surface...or running out of gas in any circustance is not an option...there were serious training errors/ommisions involved here.

WWM

 

[Wookie]

Masked/unmasked/BOV/standard DSV/strapped/unstrapped...not the issue...point being...diving with a hypoxic mix, they needed to perform a loop flush or to switch over to an oxygen blend stage or deco open circuit...however this task can only be performed if you have gas to do it... they had no gas left and reached the surface with a severely hypoxic mix that remained in their counter-lungs...passing out on the surface...or running out of gas in any circustance is not an option...there were serious training errors/ommisions involved here.

WWM

They were out of gas, dil or O2? Do you have information that the investigators don't?