Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[Dan]

One of the lesson learnt for the crew in the future similar situation (high risk of deep diving with CCR) is to assist the less experienced / newbie / student divers first than the more experienced/ instructors. @BertStevens posted the fatalities of CCR diving being 10 times higher than the OC in his post #234, page 24, Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality, which makes me think that, being a less of the two experienced CCR divers, just completed his training, he should have been pulled out of the water first than the more experienced instructor.

Scuba Diving – What Are the Risks? | Gen Re

 

[cathal]

Diving practices likely employed by Rob:

1) Add Helium advocates the removal of the gag strap to facilitate a bailout at depth. Of all the diving maladies associated with CCR diving specifically with managing a breathable gas supply (hypoxia, hyperoxia, and hypercapnia), hypercapnia is only one that is not measurable and has no effective instrument to provide warning. As such many CCR divers choose to remove their gag strap to facilitate a bailout in the event of hypercapnia. Rob was likely not using a gag strap, as this is the procedure advocated by Add Helium.

Can you outline as to how you know this to be the case. Claiming that a manufacturer approved Instructor facility knowingly advised the removal of the manufacturers recommended safety device i.e. the gag strap is a significant allegation to make due to its importance in any subsequent legal processes e.g. coroners inquiry, court case etc.

 

[oya]

being a less of the two experienced CCR divers, just completed his training, he should have been pulled out of the water first than the more experienced instructor.

This was one of the other things that twigged me about the entire report. Though the class was finished (ink still wet on the c-card, but finished nonetheless) there still very much existed a mentor/mentee relationship. It's inevitable. So why was the more senior diver out of the water first?

Perhaps whatever issue caused the reported sluggish response onboard was already manifesting in the water so it made sense at the time? But I wouldn't be easily convinced to that end. In the countless dives I've been on as the more senior diver, even when things have gone wrong I make sure everyone else is safely aboard before I climb the ladder. In the countless dives where I have been a junior diver I have obliged the request to get onboard before my seniors.

It just makes sense.

 

[Patoux01]

@NetDoc told us about his course for instance.
Or you can go on the Add Helium facebook page and look around.

There's also reports as far as 2012 that units rented by AH don't all have a gag strap.

 

[doctormike]

One of the lesson learnt for the crew in the future similar situation (high risk of deep diving with CCR) is to assist the less experienced / newbie / student divers first than the more experienced/ instructors. @BertStevens posted the fatalities of CCR diving being 10 times higher than the OC in his post #234, page 24, Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality, which makes me think that, being a less of the two experienced CCR divers, just completed his training, he should have been pulled out of the water first than the more experienced instructor.

Scuba Diving – What Are the Risks? | Gen Re

View attachment 398651

I always wondered about that 10X statistic. I wonder what the fatality rate is for open circuit dives done with doubles and deco bottles, as opposed to just scuba diving in general?

The point is that if you are just comparing CCR dives to all dives, you are going to have a lot more "big" dives in the former category. It's hard to get a real profile matched cohort (CCR vs. OC) to get better data, but I do think that that frequently posted statistic is more complex than it appears.

 

[Bob DBF]

One of the lesson learnt for the crew in the future similar situation (high risk of deep diving with CCR) is to assist the less experienced / newbie / student divers first than the more experienced/ instructors. @BertStevens posted the fatalities of CCR diving being 10 times higher than the OC in his post #234, page 24, Feb 19 2017 Cozumel diving fatality, which makes me think that, being a less of the two experienced CCR divers, just completed his training, he should have been pulled out of the water first than the more experienced instructor.

Scuba Diving – What Are the Risks? | Gen Re

View attachment 398651

From the same article:

The latest reviews of these reports, summarising diving incidents in a period of 11 - 19 years, formed the basis of the current study on suspected risk factors associated with diving (DAN: 947 diving fatalities between 1992 and 2003; PADI: 409 diving fatalities between 1989 and 2008; BSAC: 187 fatalities between 1998 and 2009).

It should be noted that it is unknown how many fatalities this reporting system misses and that in almost one third of all diving fatalities, causal factors leading to death are unknown. Furthermore, “drowning” is stated as the third most common cause of death in autopsy reports – which does not provide any hint about the underlying trigger that caused the event leading to death.Therefore, “true” fatality rates and causes of death remain elusive, and the following analyses focus on published fatality rates and diving incidents in which a cause was identified.

Since they admit that the number of fatalities is actually unknown which invalidates the chart given. In addition, there is no one that knows how many divers there are, certified or not, how many divers are active, and how many dives are actually done. Kind of leaves a lot of room for error when giving those "statistics".

It has been reported that solo diving has a ten times higher fatality rate compared to pair diving and we recommend rating solo divers as a sub-standard risk.

Later, the study backed away from this position as they were including a separated buddy as a solo diver.


It may be interesting and helpful to know what the incident trigger was in a fatality in order to avoid it yourself, the statistics themselves are highly flawed, and should not be used for any major decision. In my opinion, re-breathers are more dangerous than OC, but how much is up for grabs, and the danger may also come from the dives they are used to complete, which was not discussed.



Bob

 

[KevinNM]

It's pretty clear that some people get killed on ccr in ways they would not die if they were diving on oc. How significant that is isn't obvious, but it clearly results in some level of increased fatalies per 100,000 dives.

 

[doctormike]

It's pretty clear that some people get killed on ccr in ways they would not die if they were diving on oc. How significant that is isn't obvious, but it clearly results in some level of increased fatalies per 100,000 dives.

True, but there have also been reports of OC accidents that might have been survivable on CCR (caves, wrecks, silt outs, etc..). Time is a great benefit in some situations. Not saying that they are comparable, but I'm just saying that the statistics are unclear.

 

[lionfish-eater]

Statistics are irrelevant because each dive is an independent trial, not a series of repetitive events.

 

[doctormike]

Statistics are irrelevant because each dive is an independent trial, not a series of repetitive events.

I don't understand this.