Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[doctormike]

What difference would that make in the scenarios being discussed?

If you don't think clearly enough to inflate your wing, would you think clearly enough to inflate your drysuit? Or are you implying that you would have a separate inflation system for the drysuit, so if you ran out of dil for inflating your wing, you would still be able to inflate your drysuit? In that case, aren't you just trading one potential problem for another (that you could find yourself out of suit inflation gas)?

Don't get me wrong. I'm totally onboard with diving dry for just about any technical diving, really. But, I am unclear on how you think any of the possible CCR problems being discussed would be mitigated by diving dry versus wet.

Was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment, although the thought has occurred to me, and it's not without merit (the non-thermal benefits of a dry suit).

My comment wasn't about the accident being discussed, but about my personal gear configuration in general - having a dry suit gives you redundant buoyancy. When I was diving OC doubles in a wet suit, I used a double bladder wing (in addition to carrying two SMBs, but those aren't nearly as good for backup as the second bladder). Now CCR is different in that I have another buoyancy source (CL), and I don't use my double bladder wing. It's still nice to have backup surface buoyancy in a dry suit. Especially since the surface can be more dangerous on CC than OC.

As far as the thing about the breathable dry suit, what got me thinking about that was one of your comments, IIRC. Might be better to standardize my gear instead of having one system (and one set of muscle memory) for cold water and another one for warm water.

 

[stuartv]

Was a bit of a tongue-in-cheek comment, although the thought has occurred to me, and it's not without merit (the non-thermal benefits of a dry suit).

My comment wasn't about the accident being discussed, but about my personal gear configuration in general - having a dry suit gives you redundant buoyancy. When I was diving OC doubles in a wet suit, I used a double bladder wing (in addition to carrying two SMBs, but those aren't nearly as good for backup as the second bladder). Now CCR is different in that I have another buoyancy source (CL), and I don't use my double bladder wing. It's still nice to have backup surface buoyancy in a dry suit. Especially since the surface can be more dangerous on CC than OC.

As far as the thing about the breathable dry suit, what got me thinking about that was one of your comments, IIRC. Might be better to standardize my gear instead of having one system (and one set of muscle memory) for cold water and another one for warm water.

Gotcha. And, yes, I have a breathable drysuit and really like it. But, when the water is in 3/2 wetsuit territory, it can be a struggle to convince myself to go dry, even with steel doubles, a deco bottle, and a single bladder wing...

 

[KDAD]

Let me see if I follow this Deadbug Theory. Stewart gets to the surface and gives the okay signal. He really has no problems and is ok. Sotis gets on the boat and quickly passes out for reasons unknown but may have lost his DIL. Stewart, being the caring person that he is, removes the DSV and yells out "What happened to Sooottt...?" and quickly sinks and is unable to recover.

Is it that simple? A little tired. Task loaded. No seatbelt. Sink like a stone.

 

[Dizzi Lizzi]

Near-drowning is a term used to describe almost dying from suffocation under water. It is the final stage right before actual drowning occurs.
Details of the Incident
I was teaching a cave class that day and on the far side of the basin from the stairs with a student. We were conducting a pre-dive briefing when out of the corner of my eye I noticed a diver bobbing up and down by the sheer drop-off, approximately 100’ away from me. I observed his head drop beneath the surface, then come up and gasp air. I then watched his head descend under the surface a second time, at which point I put my mask underneath the water. I saw that the diver was holding his fins and mask in his hand, with his regulator out of his mouth and saw him kick for the surface. I told my student that I would be back in a moment, and swam over to the diver as he was beginning to descend a third time. I reached him as he lost consciousness, brought him to the surface, and notified several people on the surface that I had an unconscious diver.

I proceeded to tow the diver to the nearest set of stairs. Luckily, a rescue class had just wrapped up at the site for the day and the students took over the extraction of the diver. The diver began to revive as they were carrying him up the stairs. Once he was brought to the deck he was given oxygen, and local EMS were activated. The diver was treated by paramedics and released without transport to a hospital.


I find this incident interesting for a couple of reasons. The first reason is that there were two scuba divers standing in the shallow area no more than 5’ away from the victim that were unaware of the problem unfolding next to them. Either one of those divers could have easily assisted the victim before he lost consciousness. If the diver had simply shouted for help after the first or second time he went underwater they would have likely been able to assist him.

Real world drowning does not look like what we practice in a Rescue Diver class. Divers are rarely panicking, splashing, and screaming. They are doing exactly what Ken describes, and they can drown right next to someone who could easily help but never noticed anything gong on. For some reason they don't respond when people make suggestions to help.

In the case my friends observed, they were on a boat moored to the Spiegel Grove after completing a dive when their DM started shouting at another boat, telling them one of their divers was in trouble. They saw that a man was struggling to get to that boat, his head going under water and coming back up as Ken describes in the incident above. The other boat's crew did not seem to understand, so the DM started screaming at the man to inflate his BCD. He didn't. He just slipped under water and didn't come back up. The DM dived in and recovered him. He was unconscious but responded to the CPR by vomiting and coming out of it.

Silent Drowning: How to Spot the Signs and Save a Life | SafeBee

this ^^ makes me understand why he may not have not called for help. Here in California we have billboards that say "Children drown without a sound".

 

[St John the Diver]

Let me see if I follow this Deadbug Theory. Stewart gets to the surface and gives the okay signal. He really has no problems and is ok. Sotis gets on the boat and quickly passes out for reasons unknown but may have lost his DIL. Stewart, being the caring person that he is, removes the DSV and yells out "What happened to Sooottt...?" and quickly sinks and is unable to recover.

Is it that simple? A little tired. Task loaded. No seatbelt. Sink like a stone.

Could very well be that simple.

And probably is.

 

[Dsix36]

Due to the counterlung design of the rEvo as compared to OTS counterlungs, it will fully flood in about fifteen seconds with an open DSV above the counterlung level.

This is very true when underwater, but when floating at the surface it is not a 100% fact. If the diver has the wing inflated a bit, the top of his counterlungs will remain above a DSV even if it falls from the mouth.

 

[Dsix36]

My experience with rebreathers is exactly 1 demo dive on an O2ptima, so I know exactly enough to be a total loose cannon....

But, if Stewart was otherwise fine, and the only problem was a flooded loop, wouldn't he just switch to his BO and hit the inflator button on his wing? CCR experience notwithstanding, he was an experienced diver and it seems like those things would be pretty much second nature.



If Stewart was pulling hypoxic dil from his ADV, are you sure that would show up in the logged ppO2 levels in his computer? I thought an earlier post said that gas from the ADV would come into the loop after the O2 sensors. Maybe that just means the logging of it would be delayed by the time it took him to breathe and push it through the loop on his exhalations...?

The ADV on the rEvo fires into the exhaust counterlung, goes through both scrubbers, hits the sensors, inhale counterlung and then to the divers mouth.

 

[St John the Diver]

This is very true when underwater, but when floating at the surface it is not a 100% fact. If the diver has the wing inflated a bit, the top of his counterlungs will remain above a DSV even if it falls from the mouth.

Big "If" regarding the wings.

 

[RichardC]

Big "If" regarding the wings.

Not a big if at all.

How often do you surface and not inflate your wing at all? Without some inflation you are barely head out of the water. He apparently had the time to find which way the boat was, see people on deck, give an okay signal and, according to your scenario see that something was wrong with his buddy and react to that. All this with his eyes barely above water level?

 

[Dsix36]

Big "If" regarding the wings.

or drysuit