Filmmaker Rob Stewart dies off Alligator Reef

[MarkFlory]

I'm going to play devils advocate here, regardless of my personal feelings. I'm dead inside anyway.

I think it's a reasonable assumption that Stewart was a certified diver. Certified (and maybe qualified) to make the dive he did. He had 4 days to complete his training dives, which is not a stretch by any means. The South Florida mill is designed to make heroes from zeros, like the Pattaya Beach/Kao Tao mill is designed to do with OWSIs.

Most people on this board will shout that they are "certified divers, they don't need to follow industry rules". It was my biggest contest when running the Spree. Our rules followed industry standards to the letter. Yes, the rules were bent for certain individuals who I felt understood the risks and whose heirs were willing to accept them. That philosophy served me well. Someone like you or another diver with more trimix dives than I have open water dives would be given a pass if they asked. Peter Sotis was one of those people. Although he never dove with us, had he asked to dive outside of industry standards, as a diver who understood the risks I would have allowed him to do so. Other operators have a free for all. I have no issue with what other operators do, I don't have to defend them in court.

Anyway, whether Sotis is responsible or not depends a lot on whether you believe a buddy has an obligation to his buddy, or if a team has an obligation to the team. I don't know the circumstances of this particular dive, but I've watched a lot of planning for very similar dives. 2 or 3 folks enter the water and all are carrying 40s. They are practicing what might be called team bailout. One has a bottom mix and a 40 of 50%. The other has a normoxic mix and a 40 of 80%. The third has a 40 of 20/20 and a 40 of O2. Or whatever the breakdown is, they have the gas so that if one rebreather fails, between the three of them they can get back to the surface.

Assume Stewart was carrying a camera. He doesn't want bailout bottles in his way. You and I both know a certain well known Northeast wreck captain who dives without bailout at all. He is also an accomplished videographer. With thousands of dives. Would you tell him on your boat that he wasn't welcome?

I guess my point is, we don't know what the status of Stewart was when he went in the water, although I guarantee that by now his certification was properly issued the day before. That makes Stewart a big boy and responsible for his own safety. And 100% of experienced rebreather divers I personally know would fight tooth and nail to proclaim that they are certified and therefore responsible for themselves in the water. Without getting all emotional about Sotis personally, tell me where my reasoning is flawed.

Frank is the voice of reason once again , I agree with him 100% (120% with the built-in safety margin)

 

[stuartv]

an otherwise fine Stewart removed his loop without shutting off the DSV. The unit flooded and pulled Stewart under quickly.

My experience with rebreathers is exactly 1 demo dive on an O2ptima, so I know exactly enough to be a total loose cannon....

But, if Stewart was otherwise fine, and the only problem was a flooded loop, wouldn't he just switch to his BO and hit the inflator button on his wing? CCR experience notwithstanding, he was an experienced diver and it seems like those things would be pretty much second nature.

It should be easy to see the PPO2 levels prior to and after surfacing for both Peter and Rob.

If Stewart was pulling hypoxic dil from his ADV, are you sure that would show up in the logged ppO2 levels in his computer? I thought an earlier post said that gas from the ADV would come into the loop after the O2 sensors. Maybe that just means the logging of it would be delayed by the time it took him to breathe and push it through the loop on his exhalations...?

 

[St John the Diver]

But, if Stewart was otherwise fine, and the only problem was a flooded loop, wouldn't he just switch to his BO and hit the inflator button on his wing? CCR experience notwithstanding, he was an experienced diver and it seems like those things would be pretty much second nature.



If Stewart was pulling hypoxic dil from his ADV, are you sure that would show up in the logged ppO2 levels in his computer? I thought an earlier post said that gas from the ADV would come into the loop after the O2 sensors. Maybe that just means the logging of it would be delayed by the time it took him to breathe and push it through the loop on his exhalations...?

To the first "maybe" although a diver died on the Doria very much the same way after loss of buoyancy on the surface.

To the second "yes", it would be logged by the Shearwater. The latency time is fairly short. The gas is essentially injected just BEFORE the sensors.

The "Dead Bug" (dropping like a stone after taking out an open DSV on the surface with immediate loss of buoyancy) is a very real thing. Rigs with over the shoulder counterlungs don't suffer nearly as badly as the rEvo, which dumps it's gas in just a few seconds if you do this. It's almost instantaneous.

 

[Patoux01]

You forgot Steering wheel, gas, brakes, gears, etc. Performance needs experience but fundamentally they are the same. I would not consider my 300ZX experience (Nissan Turbo Sports car) equivilent LeMans either but then the Queen of Nassau is not the 'Andrea Doria' or better the 'Empress of Ireland'.

I thought the draeger he had was SCR? So then there's literally nothing that is the same as on a ccr....

 

[Wookie]

I thought the draeger he had was SCR? So then there's literally nothing that is the same as on a ccr....

It has an oxygen sensor and a loop.....

 

[doctormike]

To the first "maybe" although a diver died on the Doria very much the same way after loss of buoyancy on the surface.

Which diver?

The "Dead Bug" (dropping like a stone after taking out an open DSV on the surface with immediate loss of buoyancy) is a very real thing. Rigs with over the shoulder counterlungs don't suffer nearly as badly as the rEvo, which dumps it's gas in just a few seconds if you do this. It's almost instantaneous.

Have heard this point a lot in this thread, and I think that I'm going to stop diving wet. Normally dive dry at home, but was diving in a 5 mm in Florida last month. Gonna look into one of those "breathable" dry suits.

 

[packrat12]

Some of the differences come between my experience with the Prism 2 and none with the rEvo come into play here. The Prism 2 injects the ADV prior to sensors. You will breath the gas before analyzed. You exhale will hit the sensors. A high O2 on the loop will not be brought hypoxic immediately. A low O2 could be critically affected immediately. A further exhales will start to equalize the loop O2 content.

As for the SCR - My daughter dives the Explorer. We sill have DSV with an open/close function. Still have Sorb. Still have PPO2 monitoring. Still have buoyancy differences. Still have flooding concerns. Still have..... Really the biggest difference is carrying the pure O2 mine and more complicated on mine vs on hers. Most of the functions are close enough to start getting a leg up on a OC to CCR cross-over. I will also assume he had ~50hrs on the specific unit to go from Air-Dil to Trimix and then more to go hypoxic trimix.

 

[Wookie]

Have heard this point a lot in this thread, and I think that I'm going to stop diving wet. Normally dive dry at home, but was diving in a 5 mm in Florida last month. Gonna look into one of those "breathable" dry suits.

You don't have a rEvo. They are heavy (negative) as a bear, one of the reasons AH likes to put the hoop wrapped cylinders on them. You have a JJ with OTS counterlungs. A drysuit doesn't do you any good if you are not capable of inflating it for reasons of mental acuity or lack of gas, and adding a little argon bottle adds a level of complexity. Not much, to be sure, but some.

With that said, I know lots of folks who dive in a drysuit only. Ever. Kind of like a rebreather, once you develop muscle memory, it's tough to go back. I wear one when it's colder than 77 or so, like now.

 

[St John the Diver]

Which diver?




Have heard this point a lot in this thread, and I think that I'm going to stop diving wet. Normally dive dry at home, but was diving in a 5 mm in Florida last month. Gonna look into one of those "breathable" dry suits.

It was on the Doria maybe seven or eight years ago. Guy from Texas bragging about how experienced he was. Never dove a drysuit before that trip. Before he jumped the stupid pull string knob on the exhaust valve at the bottom left corner of his wings became trapped thru a D Ring on his harness and was being pulled open. When he jumped the trapped dump string began dumping his wings constantly. He was laying on the surface screwing with a camera (stupid distraction). He continued to add gas to the wings every few seconds not knowing that it was leaking as fast as he was putting it in, and very quickly ran out of diluent which was the gas feeding his wings.

After he lost buoyancy he sank and drowned before he was able to inject air into his dry suit to regain buoyancy. Obviously without diluent he wasn't able to compensate the loop either, and couldn't breathe. He passed on the way down a group of divers at 30 feet hanging on decompression. They were unable to assist him and he was already dead by then anyhow.

Don't screw up near the surface. It's the most dangerous place for a diver.

You don't need a drysuit. You need a brain. You already have two buoyancy devices on a rebreather: counterlungs and wings. Most divers don't "really" get that they are effectively breathing from their primary buoyancy compensation device when they're breathing on a rebreather. Counterlungs provide between 12 and 20 pounds of lift depending on how inflated they are. If you remove the DSV from your mouth you are going to lose that. On some rigs you only lose a portion of it and you lose it slowly, and on other rigs you lose all of it and instantly. The rig this diver was wearing falls into the latter category.

Another reason to be able to shed weight in an emergency when diving in a wetsuit

 

[The Chairman]

But, if Stewart was otherwise fine,

I'm certain he was fatigued and he might have had some issues. However, he wasn't in a stupor or at least he didn't appear to be. It's Occam's razor: The simplest solution is usually the correct one.