Filling LP tanks to high pressure

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This wasn't a result of overfilling. Probably bad tank for whatever reason, if this is even the result of a scuba tank rupturing. We have no real data.
And it wasn't a steel tank.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 03:35 PM ----------



When Hydroing a cylinder, the cylinder and vat are filled with water. The cylinder is pressurized, and the increase registers via water growing through a graduated cylinder. We start at 0, stop at 5/3's pressure, and see what the stretch to the tank is via the water level in the graduated cylinder (as measured in CC's). Then we bleed the pressure. The tank must come back to it's original size (with a margin of +/- 10%).

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 03:37 PM ----------



Notice it's an aluminum tank, not a steel tank. And probably bad alloy.

The tank that caused the damage was steel. The picture I provided to show what that tank may have looked like after the explosion is Al. I posted at wasn't the same tank, what's you point? My point was to show those that don't know the power of a scuba tank.
 
Can you show your source for the info that it was a ruptured tank?

I was always told to believe half of what I see, and none of what I hear.
 
This followed the "exploding tank article: There were a series of AL tanks produced by a couple of manufacturers prior to 1989 that have proven more likely to explode than others due to the material they were made with. These AL tanks are the only tanks that require the Visual Plus test. Many shops will not fill them at all - even if they pass the visual plus test.

As far as o2 being the cause, o2 in the cylinder would expand in volume the same as air and cause a burst disc to rupture before the tank would explode. Certainly o2 is a more volatile gas when it comes to producing flame. It is why tanks and valves must be o2 cleaned before filling with 100% o2 and/or before partial pressure nitrox fills - which require 100% o2 be put into the cylinder before air.

Again, a tank being filled with 100% o2 is more likely to ignite, start a fire and potentially explode during filling - especially if the valve and/or tank have contaminants in them or in new tanks where the smallest sliver of steel remains lodged in the valve or interior of the tank.

It is no more likely in my opinion that a tank being carried - filled with o2 - simply exploded than a tank with air - unless that tank was overpressurized, left in sunlight or heat all day and the burst disc was changed out. The same scenario in which I could see a tank filled with air exploding. In both cases, it would be a much more likely an event if the AL tank was produced prior to 1989.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 10:12 PM ----------

-the rest of the statement- During my recent VIP class at DEMA they discussed this case. The diver had filled the tank with a nitrox mix, the tank had the burst valve removed and replaced with a plug and the neck at the valve appeared to be on fire at the time of the explosion. This would have denoted the use of a petroleum product of some time not suited for nitrox and the fill with a nitrox mix under high pressure caused the neck to leak fire and explosion followed. That is what I understood the offical report to have said according to the guys teaching hte class.

---------- Post added January 5th, 2014 at 10:36 PM ----------

The tank that caused the damage was steel. The picture I provided to show what that tank may have looked like after the explosion is Al. I posted at wasn't the same tank, what's you point? My point was to show those that don't know the power of a scuba tank.

Ummm no the tank was a CO2 paintball tank - b series with no burst disk just a solid screw. It was an incident in Atlanta in 2010.

Nice try.

DOT lists a HANDFUL of scuba tank ruptures- other than a defective batch of Brazilian aluminum tanks in the late 80's (13 that had metal failure in the neck area) EVERY incident involved a tank that was aluminum and either: out of hydro, no VIP & overfilled, had a tampered-with burst disk, or a defective valve & pure O2.

Any steel tanks? Nope.

Dan-O
 
I filled my LP120's to 4500psi for the few years that I owned them. 190 cubes was great, although those were some heavy damn tanks going out the door of the shop. The guy who did it had to stop being a tank monkey and get a real job servicing transmissions (pronounced trans-mish-ee-yohns in Floriduh).

I love these discussions about overfilling LP steel tanks - they show that not all the [-]intelleckshualls[/-] smart people are at Harvard and any other online community.

I miss those fills - that was why I deepsixed the tanks and went to HP120's. Well, that and the fact that all my primary tanks were now all the same diameter.

For the sake of safety, never overfill a steel tank. In fact, underfill them and stay even safer. Safer than that is to not dive at all. Then Dandy Don will never be the first person to post your death story.

Good luck with your tanks.
 
I filled my LP120's to 4500psi for the few years that I owned them. 190 cubes was great, .


120's filled to 4500 = 204.5cu'
 
Can you show your source for the info that it was a ruptured tank?

I was always told to believe half of what I see, and none of what I hear.

Wow you must miss a lot! Sorry, I've had that picture of the truck for years, don't remember where I got it from but do remember it was caused by a rusted steel tank that exploded. As I posted my only point was to display the power of a scuba tank. The details are irrelevant the damage they can cause is relevant. If it had been an AL tank and not overfilled just think what another 1000psi could do. It seems to me it was a LP72 but I really can't be sure.


steel tank.jpgtanks.png Two of these three are AL the one on the right is rusted so steel.
 
What you must keep missing is my point. The issue isn't OVERFILLING. The issue is improper maintenance. The issue is filling a tank that clearly hasn't past a visual or possibly even a hydro.

Let it rust enough, and a tank will explode with 200psi. Ever seen a $400 shop compressor blow up? And that happens at 120psi.
 
Your post was pretty accurate right up to this point.
I have tanks that are 30+ years old. They've ONLY been filled to 3600+. They pass hydro every time. I've not lost a tank to failed hydro yet. And I've owned over 100 tanks. I currently own more than 20 LP tanks.

---------- Post added January 4th, 2014 at 06:57 PM


There are LOTS of people like this and they and their tanks are fine.

This picture trotted out is probably from Europe. They often do not have burst disks. I'm looking at my Inspiration valve and there is no burst disk.

The comments regarding heat are not correct. A "hot" tank is not "10%" more full. At quick look at Guy-Lussac's law will tell you that pressure will double if temperature doubles. Take your 70F tanks and leave them in a 150F trunk and you'll probably lose your burst disk. If you leave a tank with no burst disk in a Nissan Pathfinder that caught fire you should expect the tank to explode. If you fill more modern LP tanks to 3500psi over and over you should expect that they will outlast you unless you let them rust to hell. Just use burst disks.
 
What you must keep missing is my point. The issue isn't OVERFILLING. The issue is improper maintenance. The issue is filling a tank that clearly hasn't past a visual or possibly even a hydro.

Let it rust enough, and a tank will explode with 200psi. Ever seen a $400 shop compressor blow up? And that happens at 120psi.

My issue is sh!t happens and playing it close to the limit doesn't leave much leeway for sh!t happens. We all know when things go wrong it's usually a series of things, that any one by itself wouldn't matter a wit. I dive in RI, doesn't affect me. We don't have caves and I won't go in one if we did. I don't like bats.
 
There are LOTS of people like this and they and their tanks are fine.

This picture trotted out is probably from Europe. They often do not have burst disks. I'm looking at my Inspiration valve and there is no burst disk.

The comments regarding heat are not correct. A "hot" tank is not "10%" more full. At quick look at Guy-Lussac's law will tell you that pressure will double if temperature doubles. Take your 70F tanks and leave them in a 150F trunk and you'll probably lose your burst disk. If you leave a tank with no burst disk in a Nissan Pathfinder that caught fire you should expect the tank to explode. If you fill more modern LP tanks to 3500psi over and over you should expect that they will outlast you unless you let them rust to hell. Just use burst disks.

If the ambient temperature is 70F outside, the inside of a car will never reach 150. Now, if the ambient temperature outside is 104, I fully believe the internal temperature of a car WILL reach 150. So... If your tanks are at 3000psi in the car at 104F outside, in order for the gas to double, we have to hit what? 208F? Yikes. I'll explode too at that temperature.

---------- Post added January 6th, 2014 at 10:19 AM ----------

I don't like bats.

I don't either
 

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