Failed PADI Rescue....now what?

[TMHeimer]

I agree with RJP on possible reflection. But you are also entitled to more detail on what your specific problems were. What was the rescue scenario you lacked confidence doing? What aspects? You may well need to shore up some basics, but for whenever you try Rescue again it would be nice to have at least some details. I was in your situation years ago, though it wasn't a Rescue course and it was frustrating. Lots of manual studying can't hurt, as with any course. I did my rescue with only 26 dives--some things I aced, others not so great, but I passed and was told of my shortcomings.

 

[nldiver1984]

No shortcomings allowed in my course. You either do all of the scenarios correctly or you have to redo. I think the instructor didn't like the fact that I wasn't communicating well with the rest of the rescue team. I can't help that personal issues are preventing me from being overly confident about every nit picking situation.

 

[Zen1300]

I, for one, am glad to see that an instructor is not simply checking a box and signing a log. Granted there may be other shortcomings and circumstances involved.

I agree that the instructor should work with the student and provide additional details.

I question whether complaining to PADI will do anything. I have done so previously and I think it's too easy for the instructor being the certified individual to claim the "new diver" was mistaken, dangerous, not paying attention, etc.

 

[nldiver1984]

I, for one, am glad to see that an instructor is not simply checking a box and signing a log. Granted there may be other shortcomings and circumstances involved.

I agree that the instructor should work with the student and provide additional details.

I question whether complaining to PADI will do anything. I have done so previously and I think it's too easy for the instructor being the certified individual to claim the "new diver" was mistaken, dangerous, not paying attention, etc.

Yes just because they paid a few thousand dollars to get their instructor cert they often treat you like a peon.

 

[Zen1300]

Yes just because they paid a few thousand dollars to get their instructor cert they often treat you like a peon.

I don't think they treat you like a peon, I think they give the instructor the benefit of the doubt. Unless there is a pattern of complaints, it can be a one-off situation.

 

[boulderjohn]

sorry to hear that. i'm amazed that anyone has failed a PADI course! you must have a good instructor. detailed feedback from your instructor would be a good starting point.

As a career educator who specically taught education theory, I am always amazed when people think failing students is the sign of a good instructor. An instructor is supposed to provide the instruction necessary to get the student to the point of satisfactory performance. If the student is unable to perform well enough after that instruction, how can we assume a good job was done?

I do wonder where the instructor was during the Deep AOW dive where the OP was buddyless, in an overhead situation, and seconds from going OOA. IM states that for the Deep Adventure Dive that the instructor should...

Directly supervise all student divers. Position yourself so that you or a certified assistant can make immediate physical contact with and render assistance to divers. Continually observe divers with only the brief, periodic interruptions needed to lead the dive and to provide assistance to individual divers.

Sure doesn't sound like that happened.

My concern as well.

I don't think I was given a fair assessment and they just based their decisions on what I said about me being nervous in doing some of the exercises. Any good instructor would iron these issues out by either taking extra time to teach the material or allowing me to re-do the course when I felt I was ready, not in SIX months time when I I'll likely not be able to do it due to other commitments. I'll be writing some detailed points once I receive the survey. I doubt PADI looks at those anyway.

I am pretty sure PADI will respond.

 

[demed]

Happened with my AOW too.....now I might have to wait until the spring to do the rescue course again and that seems like such a long time. I didn't even do any of the exercises in open water because the instructor thought I couldn't do it. What a way to show support.

PADI courses are performance based. The instructor works with the student until this meets the performance requirement. I do not know the specifics of the situation, but if i were the student, i would question how the skill progression had been conducted, because there is no pass\fail test at any point in the course. if a particular skill is not mastered, feedback must be provided with specific recommendations on how to master it, then repeat. eventually more feedback and repeat.

---------- Post added October 5th, 2014 at 10:10 PM ----------

I, for one, am glad to see that an instructor is not simply checking a box and signing a log. Granted there may be other shortcomings and circumstances involved.

I agree that the instructor should work with the student and provide additional details.

I question whether complaining to PADI will do anything. I have done so previously and I think it's too easy for the instructor being the certified individual to claim the "new diver" was mistaken, dangerous, not paying attention, etc.

between 'simply checking a box' and *failing* a students there is a world of difference - specially when there is no such a thing as 'failing a class'. it's the instructor's failure not to provide feedback and recommendations for mastery of a specific skill.
if the istructor had been training with me would have completely failed his\her debriefing during the IDC.
Reporting the situation to PADI is the right step to take and PADI will start an investigation, and respond.

---------- Post added October 5th, 2014 at 10:19 PM ----------

nldiver,
....

I think it may be a wonderful thing that your instructor did not automatically pass you from these classes. I think he is trying to send you a message that you need to go back to the beginning to shore up skills and confidence that simply aren't what they should be.

An Instructor that fails to provide feedback on a specific performance is not doing his\her job. An instructor's feedback and suggestions that do not improve the performance might require remediation. An instructor who is on such tight timeline that does not allow for repeating skill performance should probably look at different ways to manage his\her schedule.
A student who does not listen to feedback, should be given the opportunity to improve performance and failing this *a number of times*, should be offered specific feedback and counseling on how to improve, including 1:1 make up sessions.

---------- Post added October 5th, 2014 at 10:20 PM ----------

I really hope you continue your scuba journey but I have to say that if you found yourself that low on air on a dive to that depth you DO have a lot remaining to learn. Monitoring your air and calling the dive with enough air to surface safely is a very basic element of safe diving. Perhaps your instructor is doing you a favour by keeping you from advancing further until you are more comfortable and better equipped to advance. I don't in any way want to discourage you from continuing to pursue your love of diving but it sounds like you do need to slow down, regroup and take a few steps back. Good luck and don't give up.

Keeping the student from advancing further to what?

---------- Post added October 5th, 2014 at 10:26 PM ----------

In my AOW course I panicked when I became dangerously low on air during a deep dive. We were exploring a shipwreck that was 100ft to the bottom and my problem began when the hull of the ship was directly above me, and I couldn't see the surface because of this. I had to make a CESA and was at the surface by the time my air had depleted to 0. Where was my buddy? Not all AOW students stick to that rule. Long story short my instructor didn't think I handled the situation properly and I had to do that part of the course again.

While student's failure to monitor air and buddy position constitute failure to demonstrate mastery of basic OW skills and ground for witholding certification until properly mastered through additional make up sessions as necessary, instructor's failure maintain direct supervision of the student diver during the deep dive is a standards violation:

Directly supervise all student divers. Position yourself
so that you or a certified assistant can make immediate
physical contact with and render assistance to divers.
Continually observe divers with only the brief, periodic
interruptions needed to lead the dive and to provide
assistance to individual divers.

 

[Goodtime Adventures]

I've read this thread with interest, and you've already been given some great advice and opinions. For my 2 cents worth I have a number of concerns both with your instructor(s), and with your own diving actions.

Instructor issues - allowing you to be in an overhead environment during your course, inadequate supervision when you and your buddy were separated and you were low on air, and a failure to provide adequate feedback & counselling on your rescue course performance. I don't find any of these actions acceptable.

Your Diving issues - failure to adequately check your air supply throughout a dive, or maintain an effective buddy team. It also seems you have some confidence issues and are not comfortable - yet - with using the kit you need for cold water diving.

My advice - Don't give up. Its clear you have a passion and genuinely want to dive, but you do have some things to work through. Get some proper feedback from your rescue course and decide where to go from there. Rescue is an intense and very physical course, made even harder in your case by cold water and weighty equipment, so don't expect it to be easy. Its also not a course you want to simply check off the performance requirements of to get the cert, so I have no problem with your instructor not passing you, as long as you get the feedback and mentoring you need to work through the problems you have. Also, slow down! Don't put so much pressure on yourself to push through OW, AOW and Rescue as soon as possible. Why not just get some fun dives in and get more comfortable with the gear and conditions, or maybe do a specialty courses like Navigation first? You are likely to become a much safer, more confident and happier diver that way, and will be way more prepared to retake your rescue skills as a result.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

You keep saying you were "nervous" and that it interfered with both your execution of skills and your ability to communicate with others during two different, completely benign courses. And no, passing a bit under the outside of a hull (as I read it you weren't inside the wreck?) isn't an overhead environment...but panicking because it got a little darker under the hull demonstrates you have no business that far underwater. How the do you think you'll react if you're faced with something about which you ​should be nervous? (Like a demonstrated inability to plan for and monitor gas consumption).

If your instructor is really just an idiot, find someone else better after vetting them (and letting them vet you) with a pool session to review the basics. If that person tells you that you have problems, maybe you'll wake up and realize the common denominator in your diving issues is you.

 

[Steve_C]

Just for clarification. You say you have to do a redo in rescue. But cannot for several months. Did the former instructor offer to give you the redo at no extra charge? You are in a pretty cold climate. Do you have to wait for several months because of your schedule, the weather, or because the instructor is not available until then?

AOW is one of those things that will punch your ticket on a lot of boats for doing deep dives under a variety of situations. You might want to avoid such dives until you are much more experienced.

Do you have panic attacks in other parts of your life?