Experienced Divers and OOA emergencies

[nereas]

Just remember that even a petite woman in panic will have an adrenaline rush making her 10x as strong as usual, and at that strength she can gouge your throat out.

Diving instructors and D/Ms are paid to risk their lives, however everyone else not on duty is not.

Big difference.

 

[scubamama5]

Lots of good info here..and can relate to so many. Have been around too many OOA situations...isn't one enough? Personally, had a blow out not too long ago. Five years ago.. My "NEW" Oceanic Omega (they had just come out with the underarm 90 at the primary) (my repairman told me not to get it) comeing back from the Busch Wreck..had already done the dive.. the primary just blew off! Bubbles everywhere.
Didn't have a real problem as I always carry a pony on deep dives..and with plenty of reserve gas in my main tank (use the rule of thirds)..I use HP Steel 80 and was mostly concerned with water getting in it.
Recently, saw a diver comeing up from the wreck butt first...good sign she was nearly OOA..I tried to tell her buddy to take over...clearly ponting at her and giving the OOA sign.. would anyone get a clue?...NO! She was too involved clutching the ascent line to watch her guages. All turned out ok..I gave her my pony, cliped it to her BC..took her and her buddy to the hang tank.... said bye bye.
Wasn't supposed to be on the job that day, at least I got to have a fun dive while down.
They where certified advanced divers, as required..but as for experience, all of their dives had been supervised.. giving responsibilty to a DM..instead of each other. This dive was a first "sitter free"..could have been worse.

 

[Standingbear56]

Since we are on the topic, here is a question relating to OOA techniques. While the argument of which do we hand over - primary or octo, and should the octo be RH or LH, I was wondering: Has there ever been definative testing to see which method is safest when dealing with an OOA diver in full panic? I don't mean opinions, but actual testing?
Does anyone know?
Safe Diving,
George

 

[tstormdiver]

I have been diving almost 3yrs & run out of air twice & had a buddy run out of air once.
My OOA #1- I was a very new diver with less than 20 dives. We were at Mermet Springs & checking out that really cool jet plane at the end of the dive. I wound up getting mixed up when our group & another group crossed paths. It took me quite a while to realize I was with the wrong group & to find my group. Once I did, I looked at my air,... 200 PSI with a safety stop yet to do. I immediately alerted my group to my situation. We ascended & my group had their octos out & ready for me. I ran out of air just as I broke the surface. Asides from realizing my mistakes & a little embarrassment, no real harm done.
My OOA #2- I was on a live aboard in the Bahamas. To put things in nutshell, I got caught in an unexpected current that was carrying me parallel to the boat. I decided to drop to 10ft & then swim perpendicular to the current to try to make it to the boat. I got about 1/3 of the way there when I ran out. Being at 10ft of depth, no real harm there either, I just surfaced, manually inflated my BC, Signaled the boat for a lift & started surface swimming.
The time my buddy had an OOA was about 2yrs ago. I was diving with the wife of another buddy of mine. She had been out for almost a year after her OW due to pregnancy. She let her husband set up her equipment. He gave her a nearly empty tank. She did not check her gages & being a bad buddy, I didn't think to do so myself. we descended on a training platform waiting for others in our group to arrive, when she swam up to me giving the text book OOA slash across the throat. I didn't think, just reacted & gave her my primary, took my octo & we made a nice slow ascent. Once on the surface, then she got rather shook up. I proceeded to tow her back to shore & we had a good long talk with her husband about the situation. There were a lot of misses on a lot of different levels there.

 

[b1gcountry]

Since we are on the topic, here is a question relating to OOA techniques. While the argument of which do we hand over - primary or octo, and should the octo be RH or LH, I was wondering: Has there ever been definative testing to see which method is safest when dealing with an OOA diver in full panic? I don't mean opinions, but actual testing?
Does anyone know?
Safe Diving,
George

I assume you mean the method as in donating from your mouth, vs donating from an octo. I can't think of a way you can 'test' what someone will do in a panic situation without putting them in enough danger to cause panic. I doubt there is a safe way to definitively test this.

What we do have are existing accident reports, and studies based off of them. The exact equipment is not always called out in these reports, but I don't recall reading about any reports where a primary/backup setup has actually CAUSED any additional problems. There have been accounts where upon donating an octopus, the second stage has been found to be faulty in some way, and either did not provide enough air, or malfunctioned outright.

Tom

 

[b1gcountry]

I would also add that habit dictates we put in a regulator with the hose to our right. I would be hesitant to use an octo which will not function in this position.

Tom

 

[TSandM]

Has there ever been definative testing to see which method is safest when dealing with an OOA diver in full panic? I don't mean opinions, but actual testing?

The only way I can think of to do this would be to equip DMs in places where lots of new divers dive, and OOAs are not vanishingly rare, with different equipment configurations, and make them keep some kind of log of how well their rescue attempts go. Even then, one would hope it would take a very long time to collect any meaningful data And they would be skewed by the variable which is the individual skills, quickness, and authority of the various DMs.

I don't think you can get good data on the subject, which is why it remains controversial.

 

[Gombessa]

I don't think RH/LH would matter much in the context of a panicked diver grabbing for your reg - they're probably not going to go for the hose anyways.

In regards to donation, my thought is that the most important point is to grab a reg by the hose and donate it right-side-up to the OOA diver - being able to do that in a fast and assertive motion is key. Seeing as most regs have the hose on the right side, any potential confusion for the donator or the OOA diver would tip the scales against anything that messes with the standard expectation. When you grab the hose of your own reg, you do so on the right. When you donate a reg outwards, the hose is on the right as well. Why change it?

 

[themagni]

I've run out of air once. I did it on purpose.

At a previous job, I would often dive with a co-worker. His tanks were due for annual service and they had a low fill on them. (Mine had about 2000# to start. I'd have to check my dive log to see what the actual value was.) We decided to go diving rather than just open them up and let the air out.

We planned a short dive, with turnaround times at halfway. We were aware that it would be a short and shallow dive, we knew it was probably going to be me running out, we both kept a very careful watch on our gauges (I'd say the longest we went without checking was 30 seconds), and we were able to do our safety stops before it happened. (They weren't required due to the short dive and shallow depth, but I try to do them on any dive anyway.) The plan was to do a stop, get to about 100, then move to even shallower water (5feet) and see what it felt like to actually run out of air.

Now, this was a shore dive. When we're in 5 feet, we can just stand up and switch to atmospheric air.

At the last minute, we realized it was a Bad Plan, so we went up. I was walking to shore with my regs in, as you often do for a shore dive. (That way if you trip or get swept away, you've got air.) I got two breaths after standing up and then I was out.

I did learn that the second to last breath is really rough. You've got to earn it.

 

[scubamama5]

Doesn't matter which side the octo's on..as long as it can be identified as such, and has a longer hose. Way long time ago we (recovery team) tried to act out a panic OOA...was rough play on our part...found the primary too short and the ability to reach your own octo impaired..with a diver super glued to your body, would have to resort to combat..as most divers are not trained in combat..best to make it easy..keep your octo accessible...for both your sakes....when diving with a group (no one and only buddy) I use a necklace...worked well in surf dives too.