Expelled PADI instructor?

[Superlyte27]

Steve,
OP is owner of a marine electronics company, and started a 10 page thread on who has the most technical nitrox training. That thread got a little out of hand, granted I was part of it, but yes I would suggest going to Add Helium, and talking to them and seeing who they recommend for recreational level instructors. Hint, they have a few on staff....

Lol, this didn’t age well. Lol lol lol

 

[boulderjohn]

Japan seems to be over represented in the lists for expelled instructors and dive centers. What’s going on over there?

I raised the issue of the high percentage of expelled instructors from Asia in a previous thread, and I got an interesting private message on the topic from someone claiming to be in the know. The explanation is instructive, because there is bound to be some truth to it, even in western countries.

The explanation was that if an instructor violates standards in that region, the liability falls on the instructor and not the shop that employed the instructor. What supposedly happens is that shop management routinely tells the instructors it employs to use procedures that violate standards. If nothing bad happens, no one is the wiser. If something bad happens, the instructor is blamed, and the shop hires a new instructor. No problem.

I am sure something like that happens around the world. When I was certified in Mexico, my pool session (only 2 people) was 2 hours long in a pool 5 feet deep. Many standards were skipped. I am sure that was not the instructor's decision. I am sure he would have gladly done a full session, but if he wanted to be employed, he had to do what his shop management said to do.

So the instructor who works for a shop has two sets of rules to follow--the agency standards and the conditions of his employment. What does someone trying to feed a family do when the two are in conflict?

 

[boulderjohn]

Sexual encounter during training? I thought that was mandatory on the 100th dive. But seriously, was it not consensual ? That would be criminal. If it was consensual I have to think it happens a lot especially for OW.

I did not express it well--I am talking about non-consensual touching, etc.

 

[Jafo19D]

I raised the issue of the high percentage of expelled instructors from Asia in a previous thread, and I got an interesting private message on the topic from someone claiming to be in the know. The explanation is instructive, because there is bound to be some truth to it, even in western countries.

The explanation was that if an instructor violates standards in that region, the liability falls on the instructor and not the shop that employed the instructor. What supposedly happens is that shop management routinely tells the instructors it employs to use procedures that violate standards. If nothing bad happens, no one is the wiser. If something bad happens, the instructor is blamed, and the shop hires a new instructor. No problem.

I am sure something like that happens around the world. When I was certified in Mexico, my pool session (only 2 people) was 2 hours long in a pool 5 feet deep. Many standards were skipped. I am sure that was not the instructor's decision. I am sure he would have gladly done a full session, but if he wanted to be employed, he had to do what his shop management said to do.

So the instructor who works for a shop has two sets of rules to follow--the agency standards and the conditions of his employment. What does someone trying to feed a family do when the two are in conflict?

Being half Japanese and having worked there for a couple of years it surprises me that they would blow standards. Japanese are extremely risk adverse. I still work with them and I sometimes get very frustrated on them not being able to make a decision because of fear.

Interestingly, I only saw one Colombian expelled (and of course they misspelled ColOmbia).

 

[Jafo19D]

I did not express it well--I am talking about non-consensual touching, etc.

That's insane that this happens although I'm not surprised.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

1. 
   
2. PADI is too quick to expel instructors, shifting the blame for any incident to them to keep it away from the organization itself. They will (to quote a common attack phrase) "throw the instructor under the bus." They should instead stand behind the instructor and support him or her through thick and thin, as a good agency will.

John,

Please cite an example as this smells like argumentum ad bullshitum.

 

[tursiops]

John,

Please cite an example as this smells like argumentum ad bullshitum.

Read his post again. He was not saying this happens; he was offering what SB PADI-bashers often say.

 

[Wookie]

I certainly have used both arguments, but then, I had inside information that PADI lawyers had been allowed out of the Tuvell case, and then came back in on the side of the plaintiffs after.

If PADI coming in to help the plaintiff sue the PADI instructors insurance company isn’t “throwing the instructor (and his insurance company) under the bus”, I’m not sure what is.

PADI got their way. Willis Canada was dropped by their underwriter. But in the end, the insurance company has the last laugh, as they are one of the last men standing, and PADIs insistence on 4:1 DSD ratios is sinking their relationship with V&B.

Schadenfreude, baby

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Read his post again. He was not saying this happens; he was offering what SB PADI-bashers often say.

Read my post again. Cite an example where SB PADI bashers have said this.

"Look it up" is not an acceptable answer. Provide a link where people are saying this. The burden of proof lies in the person making the claim. You are educated to know that proving a negative isn't happen. I could say that you Mel are <something unflattering>. You could retort with "prove it". Would my response of "prove that you are not" be reasonable? The burden of proof you being <something unflattering> would rest on my shoulders.

 

[tursiops]

Cite an example where SB PADI bashers have said this

It is called "paraphrasing."