Expectations of OW certification

[neil]

Bobb,
I have refused to certify students. They knew going in that there was no guarantee of certification. This doesn't happen that often, because, like many instructors, I feel that I have failed in my endeavors to teach them, and give extra time for them to learn the stuff. Most folks get it eventually, some don't ever get it. I never forget that MY name is on their c-card.

JBD,
What do I expect? Really just the basics for beginners.
I expect the person to be able to plan and execute a dive in close to ideal conditions. That includes having a reasonable grasp of the knowledge and skills needed to accomplish this. I'm not looking for style points. I expect them to (with a buddy) plan the dive, assemble/don/check gear, enter the water, submerge, not run low on air, not exceed NDL's, not lose their bud, surface slowly, do a safety stop, and get out out of the water. And then plan another dive.
Mistakes? Minor ones in the beginning only.

Trymix,
Oddly enough, I HAVE met divers with thousands of dives and only OW certs. Some have very advanced knowledge of diving, but just learned it on their own. How dare they!?

Neil

 

[Ber Rabbit]

We just had a student this quarter who failed. Why?
1) Low test scores, never passed any quizzes
2) From day 1 he refused to listen to instructions. He would jump around or find another way to amuse himself as soon as the instructor started talking.
3) He could not clear his mask. Every assistant had their turn working with him to see if a different teaching style would help. I had him last and he would actually talk to me, not get all defensive like he did with the guys when they asked him to do something. The problem was he (for whatever reason) could not exhale through his nose with his face in the water. I asked if he'd ever taken a scuba course before (he acted like he knew everything already) and he said "Yes, I but I failed because I couldn't clear my mask."

We gave him some tips to learn how to exhale through his nose and he was told that the mask clearing skill was mandatory. (BTW he did figure out how to clear his mask by purging his octopus into it-- I told him that was a very creative solution but he still had to be able to do it with his nose) Another assistant told him that if he really wanted to dive he should spend the next 2 weeks (we had 2 class sessions left) using the tips we had given him to learn to exhale with his face in the water. What did the student do? Simply stopped coming to class. Should he have become a certified diver? I would not, under any circumstances, have allowed someone I care about to dive with him. His attitude toward diving was going to get him and probably a couple of other people killed.

We always try to give everyone all the extra time they need to master skills but some people simply weren't meant to be divers.
Ber

 

[MikeFerrara]

I have an ice diving student who after two classes is still not certified. I have had entry level students give up. But if they don't give up, I don't. An AOW nav dive is often a multitank dive.

In answer to the original question, I don't expect anything from a new diver unless they are one of my students. I can honestly say that when I issue a cert it was earned. But some divers either because of poor role models or just plain ignorance choose to discard what they have been taught after certification. I have seen former students and wished that my name was not on their card. I only have control while they are in class. Also, sometimes my influence is not stronger than that of the many bad role models out there. Many of the worst role models have credentials and come accross to the unknowing as being very qualified. It is a constant battle. You win some and you lose some.

 

[alexeames]

Originally posted by Bobb
Just a Thought....I was wondering if anyone knows or has even heard of anyone not getting certified because of lack of skills/learning?
How about it?

Yep. My wife couldn't keep up with the rest of the class on our PADI "open water in 3 days" course and also didn't make the swim test, which was done in pretty rough sea.

We recently found out that the swim test should be done in confined water.

We were told "no refunds" but I threatened to involve Mastercard in the situation coz I'd paid by credit card.

Not surprisingly, they then gave us a pro rata refund of the parts of the course she missed.

 

[CAMPER]

An instructor (not the one that certified me) once said that diving is like life, a series of "I'll never do that again". A lot of people forget that the best learning tool is making mistakes. I question anyone ever saying that they never make a mistake or don't have moments of stupidity. One must find their level of competency in diving like in anything else its just a bit more dangerous finding it.

Ed B

 

[Walter]

Ed,

"I question anyone ever saying that they never make a mistake or don't have moments of stupidity."

I missed where anyone indicated such an attitude.

 

[devilfish]

Everybody made a stupid mistake or two at one point or another. The differance is those that survived the mistake learned from it. What about those that didn't? Who speaks for them?

 

[CAMPER]

I missed where anyone indicated such an attitude.

I was not refering to anyone in particular only the greater "they".
My point was a general one I don't expect much from instructors but I expect a great deal from myself. I try to analyse each mistake and decide what went wrong and how I should have reacted. Yes this is a dangerous sport and one must pay their dues to really learn how to enjoy, and yes some will not make it.

Ed B

 

[Drew Sailbum]

One of the key skills I expect of O/W certified divers is the ability to recognize and appropriately respond to problems.

Some problems will arise from mistakes on the part of the diver. Other problems will come from the buddy's doing. Still other problems will arise from the dive environment. All must be identified and responded to in an appropriate manner.

With experience, some problems will be averted. But until they gain that experience, O/W divers must be able to handle problems as they come.

 

[Choke]

From a newbie here, I'm in no hurry to complete my training. I aim to take as much info in as possible and have the maximum amount of fun as I can while doing it.
At the end of the day it's not a race to see who can collect the most certificates in the shortest time.