ethics of taking divers beyond their training depth...

[birdwrasse]

i'm half way through trimix... i'm taking it so i can dive below 150ft -ish, when needed, and maintain a clear head. it's a great tool.

so here is the question. if another diver is advanced nitrox certified and decompression procedures certified, and they can dive to 150ft, certification standards, and the risk of narcosis is signifigantly higher every foot past (just for the sake of someplace to start), do you not plan a dive with them if they are going to go deeper?

i'm thinking the risks are signifigant... too much to ignore. sure, there is no scuba police, and that diver could feel okay at those depths, but every day, every dive is different, and there may come a day when cold, stress, etc., that finally catches up with them.

please, post all opinions... just trying to work out the options and consequences that i can't think of...



thanks!





--c

 

[do it easy]

In your own words, you are taking trimix so that you can have a clearer head below 150'. Why shouldn't your buddy have a clearer head too?

That being said, it's a fuzzy gray area- where do you draw the line? I've certainly gone on my share of "trust me" dives and, as a general rule, wouldn't recommend it to anyone.

I think the best thing to do would be to draw a line in the sand, pick some limits, and stick with them. Picking limits is the easy part, the hard part is sticking to them

 

[birdwrasse]

thanks! i am very familiar with "trust me dives" !!!!

good point. my limits are more important than theirs...




--c

 

[ianr33]

Using grossly different mixes is not a good idea. Deco schedules will be different.What if you end up having to share air on bottom gas. What is your deco status then?

If I was planning say a 160 foot dive with a non trimix certified buddy we would either both do it on air (Caribbean) or I would get both our sets of tanks filled with Trimix (cold and dark)

 

[Scared Silly]

I would feel uncomfortable doing a dive with someone who had very different gases than what was in my cylinders. I would also be uncomfortable with a buddy offering me Trimix when I am not yet certified to use it. If the dive is important enough to do I would learn the right tools for the right dive.

One time I did do a dive with two others who were doing their deco on their backgas 21% while I was doing it on a bottle of 40%. I got to surface 10 minutes before them which is where I stayed until they said okay go ahead and get out. As there was two of them I was comfortable with that. I was also okay with doing my deco "solo" as I could switch to my back gas. I should also add that although my cert rating is for 150' this same dive was down to 160' which some would argue violates my statement in the last paragraph.

 

[Dive-aholic]

i'm half way through trimix... i'm taking it so i can dive below 150ft -ish, when needed, and maintain a clear head. it's a great tool.

so here is the question. if another diver is advanced nitrox certified and decompression procedures certified, and they can dive to 150ft, certification standards, and the risk of narcosis is signifigantly higher every foot past (just for the sake of someplace to start), do you not plan a dive with them if they are going to go deeper?

i'm thinking the risks are signifigant... too much to ignore. sure, there is no scuba police, and that diver could feel okay at those depths, but every day, every dive is different, and there may come a day when cold, stress, etc., that finally catches up with them.

please, post all opinions... just trying to work out the options and consequences that i can't think of...



thanks!





--c

Do you want to be responsible for what happens when the $#!^ hits the fan? Because ultimately you will be. If you're willing to knowingly take a diver beyond his limits on different gas mixes, then you assume responsibility for him when he becomes so narced he can't think straight. Meanwhile, you're thinking pretty clearly and will be able to remember watching your friend die in front of you. Tell him you'll do the dive after he takes the class and can do it safely.

 

[birdwrasse]

that's exactly what i'm thinking... i don't want to be responsible, but i can't make that decision for them, only me... i could sit on the boat and not dive, and i could not go on the trip all together. what a quandry! so, would you tell that diver to his face that he can't go, or do you not go yourself? hmmmmm? what if the diver regularly dives to 200ft and has never had any issues? say, he's got 1,000 dives on air to 200ft..... does that change anything?

yeah, not easy answers.... just thinking of all the possibilities.



thanks again, everyone.





--c

 

[Dive-aholic]

I would tell him he can do whatever he wants but I'm not diving with him. You could also tell the crew that he's not trained to do the dive. They'll take care of the problem. Now, I'm responding on the premise that this guy doesn't have much experience doing these dives. If he dives to 200ft on air on a regular basis it might be different. I know a diver that dives deep air regularly and has no issues at all. When he dives with others that are on trimix, it's understood that if the trimix diver has an OOA, then he will be responsible for getting them to the surface. Which is another issue for you. If you were to lose your air and had to breathe your buddy's air, how would you deal with the sudden narcosis at that depth?

 

[texdiveguy]

I will plan a dive profile based not to extend past the the training and certf. level of the diver with the lower certf.. If my dive buddy is only at the Adv. Nitrox/Deco level than that is were we base our max. dive profiles if even at that. This is really a no brainer!

 

[JiveMaster]

that's exactly what i'm thinking... i don't want to be responsible, but i can't make that decision for them, only me... i could sit on the boat and not dive, and i could not go on the trip all together. what a quandry! so, would you tell that diver to his face that he can't go, or do you not go yourself? hmmmmm? what if the diver regularly dives to 200ft and has never had any issues? say, he's got 1,000 dives on air to 200ft..... does that change anything?

yeah, not easy answers.... just thinking of all the possibilities.



thanks again, everyone.





--c

if he has that many air dives to that depth...no biggie for him.

biggest issues I could think of would be if YOU needed air from him on the bottom. if you took it, potential narc hit..black out.

i've known of INSTRUCTORS teaching Advanced Trimix courses (100m) on Air while their students are on tmx...this is just STUPID and IRRESPONSIBLE. if something happened to the student and they needed air from the instructor, immediate narc hit at that depth!

i look at technical dives as solo dives anyway though, i wouldn't have a problem doing the dive with the guy from the sounds of it.