ethics of taking divers beyond their training depth...

[dumpsterDiver]

Yesterday I was out with two guys and we drifted in on a wreck that had a deck at 200 and we completed a couple of tasks quickly. Then my one buddy decided he wanted to spear a fish so he dropped off to the bottom around 225 ft to hunt a little.

I felt pretty good on the deck at 200 (even though I had not been below 130 for probably 3 months) but I definitely got a little buzzed when I also headed to the bottom with a pole spear to try to find a fish. We found none.

Once on the boat, I questioned the other two guys (who are both trimix certified) who was stupider, me or them? They spent all the money for a bunch of courses to use trimix versus me, who hasn't had any formal technical training. We were all on air. I don't think they were unethical.

 

[texdiveguy]

Yesterday I was out with two guys and we drifted in on a wreck that had a deck at 200 and we completed a couple of tasks quickly. Then my one buddy decided he wanted to spear a fish so he dropped off to the bottom around 225 ft to hunt a little.

I felt pretty good on the deck at 200 (even though I had not been below 130 for probably 3 months) but I definitely got a little buzzed when I also headed to the bottom with a pole spear to try to find a fish. We found none.

Once on the boat, I questioned the other two guys (who are both trimix certified) who was stupider, me or them? They spent all the money for a bunch of courses to use trimix versus me, who hasn't had any formal technical training. We were all on air. I don't think they were unethical.

I am sure you are a good diver...I guess. It's not for any of us to say.....

But these kind of stories never cease to amaze me, I just don't think some guys get it.

I sure though wish you well in your future dives.

 

[pir8]

Yesterday I was out with two guys and we drifted in on a wreck that had a deck at 200 and we completed a couple of tasks quickly. Then my one buddy decided he wanted to spear a fish so he dropped off to the bottom around 225 ft to hunt a little.

I felt pretty good on the deck at 200 (even though I had not been below 130 for probably 3 months) but I definitely got a little buzzed when I also headed to the bottom with a pole spear to try to find a fish. We found none.

Once on the boat, I questioned the other two guys (who are both trimix certified) who was stupider, me or them? They spent all the money for a bunch of courses to use trimix versus me, who hasn't had any formal technical training. We were all on air. I don't think they were unethical.

I might think you answered your own question. Not setting much of an example for your students Huh

 

[JiveMaster]

Yesterday I was out with two guys and we drifted in on a wreck that had a deck at 200 and we completed a couple of tasks quickly. Then my one buddy decided he wanted to spear a fish so he dropped off to the bottom around 225 ft to hunt a little.

I felt pretty good on the deck at 200 (even though I had not been below 130 for probably 3 months) but I definitely got a little buzzed when I also headed to the bottom with a pole spear to try to find a fish. We found none.

Once on the boat, I questioned the other two guys (who are both trimix certified) who was stupider, me or them? They spent all the money for a bunch of courses to use trimix versus me, who hasn't had any formal technical training. We were all on air. I don't think they were unethical.

I have no qualms with making 200+ ft Air dives, but do you have ANY training (be it formal or not) in decompression theory?????? Did you make any sort of deco? Deep stops?? Were you just on single tanks??

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I have no qualms with making 200+ ft Air dives, but do you have ANY training (be it formal or not) in decompression theory?????? Did you make any sort of deco? Deep stops?? Were you just on single tanks??

I have read books and a lot on the internet, just no technical certifications or formal training.

The other guys use 80% for Deco and I take 100% (I guess I'm more DIR). All of us were using the new single 149 cu-ft steel tanks, 13 or 19 cu-ft pony bottles and then 19 or 30 cu-ft deco bottles. I do a deep stop at half depth usually and I follow my (hockey puck) oceanic computer which thinks the entire dive is on air.

I think we did a very short 12-13 minutes bottom time and I had around 9-10 minutes of deco on my computer. I got on board with 1900 psi in my tank.

 

[texdiveguy]

I have read books and a lot on the internet, just no technical certifications or formal training.

The other guys use 80% for Deco and I take 100% (I guess I'm more DIR). All of us were using the new single 149 cu-ft steel tanks, 13 or 19 cu-ft pony bottles and then 19 or 30 cu-ft deco bottles. I do a deep stop at half depth usually and I follow my (hockey puck) oceanic computer which thinks the entire dive is on air.

I think we did a very short 12-13 minutes bottom time and I had around 9-10 minutes of deco on my computer. I got on board with 1900 psi in my tank.

Well heck this then makes it all safe and ok to make dives in the 200-225ft. marker on air......what was I thinking.

 

[ageddiver]

FYI - this is a v-planner profile of your dive with air and 100%. It's on a relatively aggressive setting.

225, 10 225, 12

(10) (12)
100 0 (17)
90 1 (18)
80 0 (15) 1 (19)
70 2 (17) 2 (21)
60 1 (18) 2 (23)
50 3 (21) 3 (26)
40 3 (24) 3 (29)
30 3 (27) 6 (35)
20 3 (30) 4 (39)
10 5 (35) 6 (45)

As you can see, your oceanic computer is EXTREMELY agressive in getting you out of the water - and hell it doesn't even know you've got O2. You know, you can continue to e-train yourself and you may just be OK for a while. But using a real computer and/or software meant for deep diving is really tech 101 stuff, and you're an instructor? Instructor of what?

 

[ReefHound]

that's exactly what i'm thinking... i don't want to be responsible, but i can't make that decision for them, only me... i could sit on the boat and not dive, and i could not go on the trip all together. what a quandry!

Why deprive yourself? Just because you're in the water with him doesn't make you responsible for him. Simply tell him you're not his buddy and don't plan the dive with him. Find another buddy or go solo. What he chooses to do on his own is on him.

 

[Gilldiver]

I will not comment on cert level as for much of what I do, I don't care what you have. I need to know what you as a diver can do, not what a piece of plastic says that you can do. There are a few dives in Long Island Sound that are less then 140' but that most divers just can not handle.If you want to do them with me, we will work you up to them dive by dive. There is no way I would ever take a diver I didn't know very well on a wreck like the Lexington.

As for air vs. mix well differing mixes don't matter all that much deco wise till you are going over about 160 or so.

Here is some homework.

Run any dive down to about 160' with air and one deco gas be it 36, 32, 50, or 100% and write down the run times and stops.

Now run the same dive with all parameters but using a 21% O2 and He up to 35%. Keep all other parameters the same. Same depth, bottom time and deco gas.

Now write down the run times and stops.

Now compare the two dives - remember all that is difrent is that one uses 21% O2 and 79% nitrogen as the inert fraction and one uses 21% O2 and up to 35% helium with the ballance nitrogen as the inert fraction.

See any simularities?

Now at depths bellow 200, you need to be much better intune with each other.

 

[ageddiver]

Whaaaat? Pete, dude, where are you going here? Did you finally find the full ones on the rumrunner?
Bob