Ethics of shooting a "diver"

[BigJetDriver]

Catherine,

Just as an aside in reference to your title, you can shoot the swine, but I would strongly discourage it. The paperwork is just a tremendous headache!

 

[drbill]

Catherine, I grew up in Chicago. I know some folks who could easily give Grouch the cement shooz he deserves. Just give me the sign.

I take pictures of other divers all the time. Of course most instructors who bring classes out here know that I don't teach and wouldn't be trying to take business away from them. I usually just send the images to the diver via e-mail if they want them.

An action like Grouch's deserved the reaction you offered... and more.

 

[Cacia]

You've got a couple of issues here:

1 - the guy who grabbed you underwater was totally out of line and written complaints need to be made. If he's done this to you, you can bet he's done it to some else who doesn't have your experience or confidence.

2 - taking photos of other divers while on a commercial venture when you are aware that there is a photo "pro" trying to sell some images. First, introduce yourself on the boat to the guy with the camera. let him know that while you might pop a shot or two of a diver if it comes up, that isn't what you are there for. Let him know that you do try to send an image of the diver to the diver via email if you like the way it turns out. This should open up some clear lines of communication and he can include it in his brief to his divers - they will then, hopefully, stay out of your way and go to him when they want a photo taken. If you happen to be in the same place and snap a few frames, everyone is fine. Back on the boat, the courteous thing to do is accept the proffered business cards of divers that you have snapped while encouraging/reminding them that their guide/photo guy took a whole range of images of their dives.

I think you have a good perspective and I am sure a lot of experience. Oahu is unique to most places, in that we have multiple operators on a given boat. Very few operators own their boats, problems arise from this dynamic quite often. Some get this snack, some don't. I am usually just there doing my own thing and trying to stay out of the politics. The only downside to what you propose, is that I will have to make some effort and have "the conversation" which, since I am diving for fun, makes me feel put out. But, I do not see another way, so thanks for the advice. It seems these days many are always arguing about safety, money or liability. I remember "the good old days" when it was so mellow, relaxed and fun. (and it is usually like that on trips to other places, I am sorry to add)

 

[TheRedHead]

I would have given Grouch an ouch with a well placed knee, jerked his regulator out of his mouth and bopped him in the head with it, then I would grab his tank value and tow him back to the boat.

I don't mess around ...

 

[Walter]

Don't over react. When someone grabs you underwater, you start to panic and grab their mask. Pull it away from their face as far as the strap allows, then release.

Ethically, if he objects to you taking his photo, you shouldn't take it. If he objects to you taking photos of his children, you shouldn't take them. If he object to you taking photos of anyone else, it's none of his business.

 

[Cacia]

I would have given Grouch an ouch with a well placed knee, jerked his regulator out of his mouth and bopped him in the head with it, then I would grab his tank value and tow him back to the boat.

I don't mess around ...

yea, but my mom was down here too, and I am a chicken. He kinda scared me.

 

[coach_izzy]

What you described is assault, under legal and dictionary terms. Nobody has the right to lay a finger on you unless you start the attack and the other party acts on self-defense. Please do file a complaint. You'll be doing other people a big favor (including grouch himself, who knows, one day he may step over the line again and get his butt kicked big time)

There may have issues in there, but there are far more civil and professional ways to discuss it. His behavior was way out of line and deserves whatever is coming to him. Oof!

 

[Cacia]

Walter, I accidentally got his picture, and he looked funny--all crazed like his eyeballs were gonna pop out. I think I am going to look for that... Some days it is hard for me to be serious. I did feel it was assault at the time but I did not want to be associated with "trouble". You know, when the police comes, it looks bad for everyone. But basically, if you are not willing to stick up for yourself--you cannot expect others to. Maybe I will try the Alcina speech. I think he hurt his own reputation.

 

[alcina]

Catherine - I've only dived Oahu a couple of times but know what you mean. I don't think you need to go really formal, just a casual aside...and most likely only to those operators you dive with that you feel might have a problem...everyone else is likely going to be relaxed enough to not worry about it!

You're there to have too and at some stage others are just going to have to get a bit more mellow about the whole thing

btw - to add to the fire...if you are going to use any of those images (your web site, ads, postcards, promotion, editorial etc) you'll need a model release if the diver is reasonably recognizable PITA big time!

And you gotta make a complaint about that guy - imagine a newly certified, still a bit unsure diver getting treated the same way...

 

[Eli]

What you described is assault, under legal and dictionary terms. Nobody has the right to lay a finger on you unless you start the attack and the other party acts on self-defense. Please do file a complaint. You'll be doing other people a big favor (including grouch himself, who knows, one day he may step over the line again and get his butt kicked big time)

Coach Izzy is absolutely right, you were assaulted, and you should file a complaint. Here in NJ we take care of such things by either having Tony Soprano turn him into an artificial reef, or feed him to the sharks (lawyers). The sharks are far worse.