Equipment Trends: The BCD

[BDSC]

I heard they are going to make a new movie called "Laurel & Hardy the Sequel" and it will star Dan Volker and Eric Sedletzky.

 

[danvolker]

I heard they are going to make a new movie called "Laurel & Hardy the Sequel" and it will star Dan Volker and Eric Sedletzky.

Well, I would say that if we wanted to, we could showcase jacket wearing divers in a slap-stick fashion....

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's a false argument, Dan ... you're comparing people in jacket style BCDs that are obviously ill-fitting vs people in properly adjusted BP/W's. You're also comparing people who are either OW students or newly certified divers to people with a lot more experience ... or those who went through a poor class vs those who went through a good class. A true comparison would be showing good fit vs good fit ... and of comparable training and experience levels. The problem with making a like-for-like comparison is it wouldn't so obviously make your point.

A well-trained diver with properly fitted equipment will look good no matter what gear he or she is using. The objective isn't to force everyone into the same style gear ... it's to put people into gear that fits both their body and the type of diving they want to do ... and train them to use their equipment properly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

It's a false argument, Dan ... you're comparing people in jacket style BCDs that are obviously ill-fitting vs people in properly adjusted BP/W's. You're also comparing people who are either OW students or newly certified divers to people with a lot more experience ... or those who went through a poor class vs those who went through a good class. A true comparison would be showing good fit vs good fit ... and of comparable training and experience levels. The problem with making a like-for-like comparison is it wouldn't so obviously make your point.

A well-trained diver with properly fitted equipment will look good no matter what gear he or she is using. The objective isn't to force everyone into the same style gear ... it's to put people into gear that fits both their body and the type of diving they want to do ... and train them to use their equipment properly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Part of the purpose of this thread is to enlighten some people who may like to dive differently than a jacket will allow and to present them with alternative gear and an alternative style that if they were to just go to their local dive shop they would know nothing about. Thank god for the internet.

 

[MichigandiverJon]

That is the way I used to do it when I started. I didn't have money for a SPG so I relayed on the J valve and over a short period of time I got used to the feel of the reg as the tank was getting low. Try explaining how that worked to a diver today and most of them would have a meltdown. I still dive my steel 72 made in 1965 though I replaced the valve in the pic with a Scubapro DCAR valve that I got on line for $25. Now all I need is the pull rod.

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Though, I wasn't officially certified until 05 I started diving much earlier using my father's old gear which he taught me yo use. And it included J valves, and no spg . I thought they worked just fine and didn't really know any better at the time. I do remember having a simple horseshoe BC though.

 

[danvolker]

It's a false argument, Dan ... you're comparing people in jacket style BCDs that are obviously ill-fitting vs people in properly adjusted BP/W's. You're also comparing people who are either OW students or newly certified divers to people with a lot more experience ... or those who went through a poor class vs those who went through a good class. A true comparison would be showing good fit vs good fit ... and of comparable training and experience levels. The problem with making a like-for-like comparison is it wouldn't so obviously make your point.

A well-trained diver with properly fitted equipment will look good no matter what gear he or she is using. The objective isn't to force everyone into the same style gear ... it's to put people into gear that fits both their body and the type of diving they want to do ... and train them to use their equipment properly ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Clearly I am showing best of, and worst of....but the differences are still easily felt by good divers.
I would NEVER say that a skilled diver can't look perfectly in trim with a jacket bc, or that they could not do a technical penetration in a jacket....What I would say, is that for a long distance cruise, where you are swimming a long way, the jacket BC user with fredive fins, could not keep up with his evil twin wearing just tank and harness with freedive fins...lets' take the wing out of this completely. In the tropics, it is not needed anyway.

As a matter of fact, I think this weekend I will begin diving without my 18 pound wing anymore....and I may even streamline the hose concepts beyond DIR ideas....This would be for recreational depths, and anyone that buddies with me is good at air share, even with a single reg...so I may forego the 2nd hose....and just use a short hose primary....like we did in the 70s'.....I would love to find a j valve!!!We will see

 

[Basking Ridge Diver]

I would love to find a j valve!!!We will see

J-Valve with back pack back then - I still dive the tank.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Part of the purpose of this thread is to enlighten some people who may like to dive differently than a jacket will allow and to present them with alternative gear and an alternative style that if they were to just go to their local dive shop they would know nothing about. Thank god for the internet.

I didn't get that "part of the purpose" out of the OP ... but if you want to provide alternative gear comparisons, then compare like for like. Otherwise it's just another promotional for "dive like I prefer to dive".

FWIW - I dive BP/W ... I own several of them, in fact, and the only non-BP/W rig I own is my Nomad. I've spent quite a lot of effort over the past decade helping people learn to use various types of equipment ... usually what they chose to purchase before they came to see me, and often gave them the opportunity to try using a BP/W as a basis for comparison. So I get the idea of presenting them with alternative ideas.

What I really don't like is when people turn threads like this one into an unrealistic comparison of the pros and cons of those alternatives ... which is what I see occurring over the past couple of pages. It doesn't provide any real useful information, to my concern ... because the comparisons are so skewed as to be essentially useless.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rhwestfall]

with the exception of the manifold & bands, this is all modern gear...

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Clearly I am showing best of, and worst of....but the differences are still easily felt by good divers.

Sure they are ... but are those the divers you're really trying to reach? By turning the comparisons into a caricature, all you're really doing is causing the people who most need this information to quit taking what you have to say seriously. Isn't that a bit counterproductive?

I would NEVER say that a skilled diver can't look perfectly in trim with a jacket bc, or that they could not do a technical penetration in a jacket....

I would never recommend that someone do a technical penetration in a jacket. It's the wrong tool for the job.

What this thread needs is a better delineation between appropriate equipment for technical diving vs that for diving on a tropical reef. That delineation is how we ended up with the choices we have in gear selection in the first place.

What I would say, is that for a long distance cruise, where you are swimming a long way, the jacket BC user with fredive fins, could not keep up with his evil twin wearing just tank and harness with freedive fins...lets' take the wing out of this completely. In the tropics, it is not needed anyway.

For most of us, diving's not a race. In fact, I've spent a considerable amount of effort over the years explaining to people why they might not want to use cruising speed as a metric for determining what equipment was most appropriate for them to choose.

As a matter of fact, I think this weekend I will begin diving without my 18 pound wing anymore....and I may even streamline the hose concepts beyond DIR ideas....This would be for recreational depths, and anyone that buddies with me is good at air share, even with a single reg...so I may forego the 2nd hose....and just use a short hose primary....like we did in the 70s'.....I would love to find a j valve!!!We will see

Minimalist diving's great fun ... particularly for those who are hunting or diving in conditions where steamlining is a significant advantage. For most recreational divers, it's of less concern than managing their dive in accordance with their training ... which would mandate the use of both an air cell for buoyancy control and an alternate second stage for air sharing. I recognize that this thread's in the "Advanced Scuba Discussions" forum, and therefore your choices are appropriate ... but that doesn't mesh well with the "part of the purpose of this thread" that Eric mentioned previously.

If the point of the thread is to provide people with alternative choices, I'd way rather focus on alternatives that might make some sense for them to consider ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)