Edmund Fitzgerald side scan images

[Scott L]

The problem with that exclusion zone of 500M, is that it only applicable in Canadian waters. There is a possibility that the bow of the Fitz actually lies in American waters by 100+ feet, negating the Canadian law. As for the side scan, I can set the range in known American waters and still detail the wreck. My biggest complaint is how the Canadians have the nerve to restrict access to 3 American wrecks (Fitz, Hamilton, and Scourage). A few of the guys will run out there and see if she does touch American bottomland. A few divers have illegally dove her since 06' but I don't know whom.

Does the Canadian government impose consistent laws regardless of who's flag the ship sailed?

 

[Dave Sutton]

Well... since the law specifically names the 'Fitz, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions.

As Northwestern Mutual still owns the 'Fitz, prohibiting diving to "inspect their wreck" would be hard to justify. I'm not sure if everyone knows that NW Mutual owned the ship, which was named after the Chairman of the Board of NWM. As they insured their own ship, and never formally abandoned it, it's still theirs under admirality law.

Capt. Dave

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[Scott L]

Well... since the law specifically names the 'Fitz, I'm not sure you can draw any conclusions.

As Northwestern Mutual still owns the 'Fitz, prohibiting diving to "inspect their wreck" would be hard to justify. I'm not sure if everyone knows that NW Mutual owned the ship, which was named after the Chairman of the Board of NWM. As they insured their own ship, and never formally abandoned it, it's still theirs under admirality law.

Capt. Dave

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NW Mutual is just that. As a policyholder, you have my proxy.

 

[Dave Sutton]

NWM is fully aware of the significance of the Fitz. Last time I knew they had a model of her on display and a painting of her as well. I don't think it would take too much to get their permission to do an inspection dive to establish baselines for future studies on her as an archeological site.



Capt. Dave

 

[Jared0425]

Nice to meet someone with good sonar experience. I work with the Klein analog units that DT has. 50, 100, and 500khz fishes from the mid 80's. Luckily we switched to a analog to digital system developed by Chesepeake... Something or another, better than using the wet paper which gets burned when we hit a big metal one. On the sheriff team we use the digital 3000 Klein unitm and I must say I enjoy working with all sidescan but that one is a quality unit.
Jared

 

[Dave Sutton]

The software you describe is a computerized replacement for paper graphs, but the old systems are still analog systems. In an analog system the fish is really just a transducer at the end of a long cable, with amplifiers to get the signal to the topside processor. Those signals are attenuated by umbilical length, and are analog signals that can have substiantial noise and interferance added by the cable acting as an antenna. Processing is also analog. The output may b a paper graph of computer display, but having it displayed on a computer does not make it "digital".

In a digital system *all* of the processing is done within the fish, and the signal run up the coaxial cable to the topside unit are just bits forming a data stream. This means that the cable length does not attenuate the signal, nor inject noise into the signal. Basically, in a digital system the fish is just one node of a local area network. The actual umbilical is only a two condictor coaxial cable: Over it is run 400 volts DC to power the fish and it's systems, and multiplexed over the same conductors are the digital data stream.

The first Klein system to be digital was the System 2000. You are probably using a 521 (Analog) with Chesapeake software to allow the paper graphs to be replaced by a computer. Still a very good system.


Attached are two samples of the output of a Klein system 3000 that we obtained last summer. One is a pair of wrecks connected by a chain. Can you see the links of the chain? The other is a burned out steamship. Can you see the rudder laying in the sand off of the stern?


Dave


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[Scott L]

The software you describe is a computerized replacement for paper graphs, but the old systems are still analog systems. In an analog system the fish is really just a transducer at the end of a long cable, with amplifiers to get the signal to the topside processor. Those signals are attenuated by umbilical length, and are analog signals that can have substiantial noise and interferance added by the cable acting as an antenna. Processing is also analog. The output may b a paper graph of computer display, but having it displayed on a computer does not make it "digital".

In a digital system *all* of the processing is done within the fish, and the signal run up the coaxial cable to the topside unit are just bits forming a data stream. This means that the cable length does not attenuate the signal, nor inject noise into the signal. Basically, in a digital system the fish is just one node of a local area network. The actual umbilical is only a two condictor coaxial cable: Over it is run 400 volts DC to power the fish and it's systems, and multiplexed over the same conductors are the digital data stream.

The first Klein system to be digital was the System 2000. You are probably using a 521 (Analog) with Chesapeake software to allow the paper graphs to be replaced by a computer. Still a very good system.


Attached are two samples of the output of a Klein system 3000 that we obtained last summer. One is a pair of wrecks connected by a chain. Can you see the links of the chain? The other is a burned out steamship. Can you see the rudder laying in the sand off of the stern?


Dave


.

Dave, did you sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night? The first picture looks like a T-Rex skeleton/fossil to this maritime neophyte.

 

[HowardE]

Nice to meet someone with good sonar experience. I work with the Klein analog units that DT has. 50, 100, and 500khz fishes from the mid 80's. Luckily we switched to a analog to digital system developed by Chesepeake... Something or another, better than using the wet paper which gets burned when we hit a big metal one. On the sheriff team we use the digital 3000 Klein unitm and I must say I enjoy working with all sidescan but that one is a quality unit.
Jared

I use SonarWIZ from Chesapeake as well. We also have a klein unit, but ours isn't modified like Dave's

The first image is a buried 18th century Spanish ship. You can see some of the outline. The second image is the area view (mosaic) of the first image, with the magnetometer survey overlaid. The third image is some junky wreck we found that really isn't interesting, but its a nice image.

.

 

[Jared0425]

Here are some sidescans that I have done with the 100Khz. First is the Marion Egan taken at the right angle, the other is the unidentified Schooner we found in 2010. The wreck on her side is the Cyprus, taken by GLHS MS500, the broken freighter is the John Cowle taken by Whitefish Point Society Klein 650khz.

 

[StanS]

The software you describe is a computerized replacement for paper graphs, but the old systems are still analog systems. In an analog system the fish is really just a transducer at the end of a long cable, with amplifiers to get the signal to the topside processor. Those signals are attenuated by umbilical length, and are analog signals that can have substiantial noise and interferance added by the cable acting as an antenna. Processing is also analog. The output may b a paper graph of computer display, but having it displayed on a computer does not make it "digital".

In a digital system *all* of the processing is done within the fish, and the signal run up the coaxial cable to the topside unit are just bits forming a data stream. This means that the cable length does not attenuate the signal, nor inject noise into the signal. Basically, in a digital system the fish is just one node of a local area network. The actual umbilical is only a two condictor coaxial cable: Over it is run 400 volts DC to power the fish and it's systems, and multiplexed over the same conductors are the digital data stream.

The first Klein system to be digital was the System 2000. You are probably using a 521 (Analog) with Chesapeake software to allow the paper graphs to be replaced by a computer. Still a very good system.


Attached are two samples of the output of a Klein system 3000 that we obtained last summer. One is a pair of wrecks connected by a chain. Can you see the links of the chain? The other is a burned out steamship. Can you see the rudder laying in the sand off of the stern?


Dave


.

Dave you should show them the image of the Etruria we got after turning at almost 1/2 mile range. That was a great shot. Looking forward to next springs hunt.

Stan