e7-100 vs. Faber 100

[Brian Gilpin]

I had decided to buy a couple of tanks for non tek recreational diving here in Norcal. I had decided on two E7 100s. I like their light weight and they have decent buoyancy properties. I can get full 3500psi nitrox fills as my LDS has a membrane system. I believe I can do as well in Monterey as well which is where I do a lot of diving. Even on the boat I can get 3000psi which will give me almost 15% more than I would get with the usual AL80 of the same weight.

My LDS doesnt carry them. He has been good to me to the point of sponsoring me for key man status on DUI products. I would prefer to buy from him.

His option is Faber hp100. The specs at

http://www.huronscuba.com/gear/cylinders.htm

show this tank 5 lbs heavier when empty. They are also five lbs heavier in the water which takes 5 lbs off the ole belt . It is painted rather than hot dip galvanized.

Other than the five pounds, am I missing anything here? Are the tanks of comparable quality? He is offering me the Fabers for about $250.00 which is $30 dollars less than what LeisurePro is asking for the Pressed Steel E7 100s not including $40 freight.

Are there any Faber owners or posts which will attest to quality?Conversely do they have a history of problems? Would appreciate any experience you have to share.

Also does anyone know why two tanks of similar dimensions are so different in weight?

 

[LUBOLD8431]

I think if you do a SEARCH you will find alot of topics on this,

BUT, here's my take on it:

GET PST CYLINDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DONT BUY FABERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Faber cylinders are painted, and the paint WILL scratch off, and then you will have RUST!!! RUst and steel dont go together very well...

Go with the galvy's, PST!!!

Also, they are wicked heavy cylinders also, and MAY cause you to turtle. PST's have much better buoyancy characteristics...

in one word: PST!!!!!!!!

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Also, there is a reason why the PST's are more expensive than the Faber's: THEY ARE A BETTER CYLINDER!!!!!!!

ANd, YES, I own both Faber and PST cylinders, so I am speaking from experience...

 

[Mverick]

I own the Faber's. With my Halcyon 27 and a Faber HP100. I use no weight belt. With a 3mm suit. I love it.

Had 2 of them for 8 years and NO rust. I dive Fresh water. No Saltwater.

They do have a Tendency to turtle ya. But I always dive Belly down. If you double them. They will turtle ya. I dive them in Duals all the time. Stay belly down and no problem.

I like them. I have, Hmm Lets see.

2 LP 72's dual'd
2 PST LP 95's dual'd from Lubold8431
2 OMS/Faber LP 112's single
5 Faber HP 100's 2 dual'd
4 Faber HP 80's Dual'd
1 AL80 Catalina
4 AL80 Luxfers 1 set Dual'd
2 US diver AL80
4 AL13's I'm using for converted CCR RB's

Reason I bought the Fabers was I bought Duals during Abysmal's Super Sale. Paid around $400 with Highland Bands and Thermo Manifolds. Couldn't beat the deal with a stick. Plus shipping.

And I repeat, I've never had a problem with rust on them. But I dive Fresh water also. Not even Surface Rust. I also don't beat the hell out of them. I have my own compressor and Have access to a Big compressor at the Rescue Squads building I'm with. So I fill them myself also. And get Free fills at the Dive shop. Since I work with them also.

Any steel will start to turtle ya over an Al80. Except the 72's. They are weighted like a AL80.

If you can get the Faber for $200 a cylinder. Buy them. That's the first 2 I bought. And on occasion I still see them for that.

PST's are really great cylinders too. But $100 better? Not for My $100.

The big Problem I had with HP PST's was the goofy neck size. They've fixed that now.

Some of my friends Hate Steels. They don't like that they can't swim on there side. Other's like me. Just don't swim on our side. And I hate wearing a weight belt. I love my Dual HP100's and HP80's. No weight belt either..... With my Dry suit.

But, The Galvanizing is great on the PST's. And it's worth some extra money for sure. Have heard of problems with PST's not passing Hydro too. But I also heard it was because of the Hydro place not knowing what they were doing.

One thing. Make sure and remove the boots. And wash the bottoms. On Either one you buy....

Oh, the PST's I bought from Lubold8431 I'm happy with them but they had surface rust were the bands were mounted. Not a big deal. A little sand paper and back to new. But PST's rust also.

And I haven't heard of either one blowing up. So you're safe there too....

 

[Dryglove]

I just recently bought a set for doubles from www.mantaraydive.com in monterey. I would say stay away from the painted fabers and go with the pst tanks for salt water diving. I had a set of fabers 95's and they tend to scratch very easily which leads to rust plus i have heard all the horror stories and seen some bad rust problems with the faber tanks. I took very good care of my fabers and never had a problem with rust.

The new E7 PST 100's are great tanks that hold plenty of air without being overly huge and heavy. Mantaray has no problem filling them with nitrox to the rated pressure which is where i get the majority of my airfills. Aquarius on delmonte has 36% banked which is great when you are in a hurry. You wont regret buying the E7 100's if you can get past the price. I had to sell all of my extra gear to pay mine off. Just ask mverick where he got his double 72's from. I really miss beach diving the dbl 72's compared to the 100's though. I didnt think they would be quite as heavy as they are but are still manageable. I dont miss the faber 95's one little bit.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Mverick once bubbled...

Oh, the PST's I bought from Lubold8431 I'm happy with them but they had surface rust were the bands were mounted. Not a big deal. A little sand paper and back to new. But PST's rust also.

The rust on the outside of the PST cylinders is not rusting away the actual metal of the cylinder. When the Faber gets scratched, and rust forms, that rust is directly contacting the metal of the cylinder...

The rust you are talking about came from the bands, and is sitting on TOP of the galvanization. So, the metal underneath is perfectly sound...

BTW, have you looked INSIDE of those 95's yet??? THey are like brand spanking new in there...

 

[Tom Winters]

My g/f has a Faber HP 80 that she has been using for a few years now - no rust on it, but dang ---> that is one heavy, squatty-body tank for 80 cubic feet. With the 100HP, you're gonna have a tank almost 7 pounds heavier than the E7-100; plus there's always making sure that the 3180 psi tank gets the extra 10% overfill to 3500 psi. Why doesn't your LDS guy carry the PST's anyway? There sure seems to be an exploding level of interest in these for people wanting steel tanks.
:sharky:

 

[Brian Gilpin]

According to Mverick

Any steel will start to turtle ya over an Al80. Except the 72's. They are weighted like a AL80

Turtleing? I recognize and understand the term but perhaps we need a SB dictionary! Anyway, since the E7-100 is much closer to an aluminum than a Faber hp100 in weight then it would seem to follow that the E7 has an advantage in this department. Range of motion is important. Any more input out there?

 

[padiscubapro]

Brian Gilpin once bubbled...
I had decided to buy a couple of tanks for non tek recreational diving here in Norcal. I had decided on two E7 100s. I like their light weight and they have decent buoyancy properties. I can get full 3500psi nitrox fills as my LDS has a membrane system. I believe I can do as well in Monterey as well which is where I do a lot of diving. Even on the boat I can get 3000psi which will give me almost 15% more than I would get with the usual AL80 of the same weight.

My LDS doesnt carry them. He has been good to me to the point of sponsoring me for key man status on DUI products. I would prefer to buy from him.

His option is Faber hp100. The specs at

http://www.huronscuba.com/gear/cylinders.htm

show this tank 5 lbs heavier when empty. They are also five lbs heavier in the water which takes 5 lbs off the ole belt . It is painted rather than hot dip galvanized.

Other than the five pounds, am I missing anything here? Are the tanks of comparable quality? He is offering me the Fabers for about $250.00 which is $30 dollars less than what LeisurePro is asking for the Pressed Steel E7 100s not including $40 freight.

Are there any Faber owners or posts which will attest to quality?Conversely do they have a history of problems? Would appreciate any experience you have to share.

Also does anyone know why two tanks of similar dimensions are so different in weight?

Personally I hate HP cylinders, I'll take a LP cylinder anyday..

I have had both PST and Fabers.. I had a set of PST fail the first hydro and it was done according to spec.. I still have my first set of faber 95s about 15 years old now (routinely with "florida fills")and still no rust inside or out (actually I has a spot od rust where one of the hydro stamps went... a little sand paper and some galvanizind paint solved the problem.. The hydro stamp was never painted).
I do almost no freshwater diving, mostly ocean dives..

PST has a serious delievery problem.. everyone I know of has had to wait extended periods of time for delieveries from the factory.. Most have been happy once they got it...

The one thing that most people are unaware of is that most of the "HP" tanks are under a DOT exemption that usually have to be renewed at regular intervals.. If the renewal is not granted the tanks can no longer be recertified or filled... LP tanks dont need this...

Although it is unlikely PST will go out of business its something to consider (also most exemptions require reports to the DOT on how many cylinders fail hdro yearly, this determines if the exemption will be granted.. any steel cylinder not stamped 3aa or aluminim cylinder stamped 3al requires dot exemptions)

usually the stamp will read something like dot e-?????, where ? is exemption number

 

[Mverick]

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...


The rust on the outside of the PST cylinders is not rusting away the actual metal of the cylinder. When the Faber gets scratched, and rust forms, that rust is directly contacting the metal of the cylinder...

Well, actually it is rusting away the Metal of the cylinder. Scratch one and it will Rust. BUT, the Galvanizing keeps it from going deep. Just on the Surface. Unlike with a Painted cylinder. Where it would keep rusting and bubble up the paint. Because Galvanizing wont rust. Zinc and ALuminum used in the process will not Rust. Oxidize yes. Red Rust, No.

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...


The rust you are talking about came from the bands, and is sitting on TOP of the galvanization. So, the metal underneath is perfectly sound...

If there is a scratch on the tank under the bands. That's where the Rust color came from. It still is attacking the galvanizing. But you will get the Rust Color, From the Base Metal of the tank. Bands are made of Stainless. Funny thing, it will rust to. Grind it with a Wheel you've used to grind Steel with. And it impregnates in the surface causing rust. But the Nickle content keeps it from happening as long as you don't do silly things to it. And the Bands had NO discoloration. None. So the Rust color didn't come from them.

LUBOLD8431 once bubbled...


BTW, have you looked INSIDE of those 95's yet??? THey are like brand spanking new in there...

I'm not complaining about the tanks at all. I got a great Deal. Thanks. They are great tanks.

And On the 72's Lal sold me. They looked great too. I had always wanted a set. He sold the Bands and Mentioned he had 2 tanks. Shipping was High but he had redone them in ZRC. And they look great. Glad I bought them too....

Reason I know a little about Metals. I worked in a Steel Mill for a few years. And grew up around Steel. My Father worked there for 37 years. Me around 8. In every process and in the Lab. Huge operation. We also had Galvanizing Lines I worked on and Alumacote lines. So I know a little about Galvanizing. You scratch it. It will rust too. BUT, the Al and Zinc will get eaten away much more readily. And save the steel. But you still get Rust. Wanna here stories about Titanium and Annodizing? I've gotten them covered too... And how many cars have you seen with rust? Because they use Galvanized steel to. It just helps. It doesn't stop it.

And on Turtleing ya. When you get weight on your back only. and you roll to one side or the other while being Belly down. It's like a pendulum. Since they are the heaviest part. They want to swing you onto your Back. Stay Belly Down and you don't have a problem. At the Surface, No Problem. They also don't push you face first with a Back Inflate BC like AL80's do. Because of this.

Like a Turtle when you see one on it's back. All that weight is on top and high. That's why it's called Turtleing.

I like the LP's still for this reason, they might be heavy. But they aren't as Negative as the Faber HP's. So I use them also. I used to use the 108's alot. I'll try the 95's now. But to be Honest, I like Nitrox in Single LP's. Easier for me to mix. That's the Big reason for the LP's.