Dumbing down of scuba certification courses (PADI) - what have we missed?

[Debra@DivingMuseum]

I should also mention that I did ask my instructor a lot of questions to help me understand things that I didn't completely comprehend based on my online instruction. Don't forget that the student is ultimately responsible for their own learning.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I should also mention that I did ask my instructor a lot of questions to help me understand things that I didn't completely comprehend based on my online instruction. Don't forget that the student is ultimately responsible for their own learning.

Thank you for your response.

 

[boulderjohn]

Statisics compiled by the North American Council of Online Learning (now iNACOL) [iNACOL - International Association for K-12 Online Learning] has shown that students taking online Advanced Placement courses in high school have scores equal to or higher than students taking traditional courses.

As in all education, there is a dramatic difference between the quality of courses. Some online courses are produced by amateurs and are, well, amateurish. A well-designed online program is an outstanding educational experience. Dr. Clayton Christensen of Harvard's 2008 work Disrupting Class: How Disruptive Innovation Will Change the Way the World Learns predicts that online education will ultimately provide the processes by which education will show the dramatic improvements that will upend the world of education.

I suggest those of you who don't like it start throwing your wooden shoes into the machinery of this change. Perhaps you can prevent it.

 

[Web Monkey]

Statisics compiled by the North American Council of Online Learning (now iNACOL) [iNACOL - International Association for K-12 Online Learning] has shown that students taking online Advanced Placement courses in high school have scores equal to or higher than students taking traditional courses.

Since our shop isn't PADI and does no online teaching (and won't anytime in the forseeable future), I don't really care if anybody else uses it or not.

I will however note that the "International Association for K-12 Online Learning" is hardly an unbiased opinion on the topic. It's like asking the American Beef Council if cheeseburgers are good for you.

Terry

 

[boulderjohn]

Since our shop isn't PADI and does no online teaching (and won't anytime in the forseeable future), I don't really care if anybody else uses it or not.

I will however note that the "International Association for K-12 Online Learning" is hardly an unbiased opinion on the topic. It's like asking the American Beef Council if cheeseburgers are good for you.

Terry

Oh, so you are saying that the official stastistics they report from the College Board and the official school reports were doctored to show untrue results? If so, you should report your source of information so tht this fraud can be exposed.

 

[ScubaDocER]

Statisics compiled by the North American Council of Online Learning (now iNACOL) [iNACOL - International Association for K-12 Online Learning] has shown that students taking online Advanced Placement courses in high school have scores equal to or higher than students taking traditional courses.

Is there a correlation between students taking online AP courses exclusively and those students taking AP courses by qualified teachers? Or a correlation between teaching students 9th grade Math using online courses exclusively or teaching them using a qualified teacher?

I suppose for now the discuss is "academic" so to speak. I am not opposed to online education. I do believe that aspects of it are extremely beneficial and helpful for many students to learn. IMO, the education of scuba divers should involve an active Instructor. An extension of the discussion suggests that if Instructors are not needed for the academic aspect of diving, are they REALLY needed for the pool sessions? Surely these same computer programs can demonstrate in water skills. They would never forget to display a skill. Never make a mistake in displaying the skill. Students watching the skill should be able to reproduce the skill by repetition. If a student can comprehend Boyle's Law and the differences in volume, density, and pressure from a computer screen, can they not watch the same computer demonstrate air sharing drills or emergency ascent drills? This is the logical next step. It is dangerous to assume that simply because someone has watched a video that they are competent to jump in a pool. While some students may be able to do this, those who are not able will be left to their own survival. The reason for involving an active Instructor in this process is to make sure that no student is left behind. That no student is without the basic understanding of diving principles that are necessary for them to become competent divers. As educators, that should be our charge.

There is a difference between an Instructor and an Educator. There shouldn't be, but there seems to be. Anyone can instruct by reading from a book, a prepared text, or regurgitate previously memorized or assimilated information. The educator makes sure their student understands the information. They address concerns over the context of the information. They correct misunderstandings or misinterpretations of potentially vitally important pieces of information. They remain focused on student comprehension of the topics being discussed. That requires interaction beyond reading from a computer screen. IMO.

 

[3000psi]

As in all education, there is a dramatic difference between the quality of courses. Some online courses are produced by amateurs and are, well, amateurish. A well-designed online program is an outstanding educational experience. Dr. Clayton Christensen of Harvard's 2008 work Disrupting Class: How Disruptive Innovation Will Change the Way the World Learns predicts that online education will ultimately provide the processes by which education will show the dramatic improvements that will upend the world of education.

Granted I have not read the book but from what I understand of the concept it means in the future on-line courses will be tailored to the individual. Maybe once a student can answer several questions that determines the best teaching method for their aptitude for learning and then an online course is configured to take advantage of this as well as monitoring and adjusting the on line course through tests then you are, IMHO, getting to what Dr. Clayton Christensen is alluding to. But I do not believe his idea of advancing education is a one size fits all on line course which is what we have now in the industry.

I for one can possibly see embracing an on line education system at some point in the future but it will need to mature into something more than what is currently available. Until then I like to be able to ask probing questions to elicit responses to gauge a students comprehension, have students ask questions that spark other students to chime in and read their faces to determine if they truly understand the topic or are their eyes glazed over in bewilderment.

Hopefuly Dr. Christensen's view of on line education will come to fruition but I would say even he would agree that it is several years down the road before a University of Phoenix on line degree will be equal to a Harvard degree obtained in the classroom.

 

[Web Monkey]

Oh, so you are saying that the official stastistics they report from the College Board and the official school reports were doctored to show untrue results? If so, you should report your source of information so tht this fraud can be exposed.

I've never seen their results and don't actually know where they get their data or how they interpret it. However I tend to give more weight to statistics that come from organizations that have no intrinsic bias.

This is why I don't get my smoking information from Phillip Morris or my health information from Vitamin Hut.

Terry

 

[boulderjohn]

There is a good chance that no one reading this forum has seen the high quality online programs that are currently available. Most online courses that people have taken were created by poorly trained professors throwing something together in their spare time.

In contrast, the best programs are created by teams of trained professionals working for many dedicated months. They bring in the best multimedia they can create, and they carefully scaffold learning to take students systematically through their learning.

Most importantly, what people seem not to understand is that they are not being taught by R2-D2. An active teacher is a critical part of the best online education programs. In the programs that I led, we emphasized the need to make teacher interaction a critical part of the instructional process.

What Clayton Christensen envisions is a time when technology is better able to assess student learning needs and make appropriate adjustments to the educational process. We have some limited ability to do that today, but absent that we build that diagnostic and adjusting ability into the teacher interactive process.

As for the iNACOL statistics, they are simply what happens when you compare the officially published College Board staitistics with the officially published school results. Not hard to do. Hard to fake. You can do it yourself if you want--see if you get different results.

 

[Web Monkey]

As for the iNACOL statistics, they are simply what happens when you compare the officially published College Board staitistics with the officially published school results. Not hard to do. Hard to fake. You can do it yourself if you want--see if you get different results.

I don't really care enough about the topic to look into it, but was just mentioning that it's hardly surprising that an organization with the goal of promoting online learning has statistics that show that online learning is good.

Terry