DSS wing - not a donut - discuss
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cummings66
Contributor
veggiedog:
What I found useful was the answers to your questions/statements, and I certainly know where you stand. There seems to be 2 camps on every issue naturally, and because I'm new to this aspect of diving I didn't know for sure where I should place my beliefs. Both sides seem to have merit. As the DSS rationale was explained here it helped me understand the design issues a bit better.
I'm convinced by the merits of this DSS system that it is as good as I'll ever need it to be, and certainly better than my Mares BCD I'm using now. Don't get me wrong I like my current BCD but I think I'll like this better and it'll serve me well.
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With all due respect veggiedog, I think you're confused, have a somewhat higher opinion of your diving knowledge than perhaps you've earned (based on the statements you've made in this thread) ... and that your frustration regarding Tobin's statements stems from the fact that you simply don't know enough about the subject to understand what he's trying to tell you.
Some examples ...
What, also did you mean when, in Reply 36 you said "I'm suspicious of his motives, and I won't kiss ***".
What "motives" are you suspicious of? And what made you think Tobin was the least bit interested in where you kiss people? In fact, what relevence did those comments have to the conversation in any way?
In Reply 31 you asked a question ... "Why do wings have bottom dumps." Tobin's response in Reply 32 was "Every BC needs a Over Pressure Valve, that's what the "bottom dump" really is."
He was answering your question.
Then, in Reply 36 you stated "OPV's are not dump valves."
In fact, they are. Tobin was attempting to point that out to you, but you were more interested in questioning his integrity than in listening to a simple, and correct, answer.
The problem is, you don't appear to be able to understand it ... personally I think that's because you have an inflated opinion of how much you really know about the subject, and aren't willing to listen to what people with more knowledge are trying to tell you.
It pains me to sit back and watch someone with barely enough experience to be comfortable in the water attacking one of our most respected and knowledgeable professionals. Tobin doesn't have to waste his time with people like you ... and frankly, I'm surprised he bothered responding at all after your first attack.
If you are really interested in learning anything from your participation in this board, drop the "abrasive style". Try listening to what people are saying, rather than questioning their motives and integrity ... there are some incredibly knowledgeable and experienced people here, and they can give you a lot of good information if you'll let them.
Better yet, get ahold of some of this gear you've got questions about and try it for yourself ... since yours is the only opinion you apparently value. But do, please, get a little more experience and develop a bit more knowledge before coming in here and questioning the motives and integrity of people who are trying to help you learn something.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
Some examples ...
You have never dived in a drysuit, but you expect you'll be able to "figure it all out on your maiden ds dive". I'll bet it'll take you way more than one dive in the shallows to "figure it all out" ... or at least if you do, you will in fact be as "unique" as you make yourself out to be.veggiedog:
But you did imply exactly that in Reply 46 when you said "I'm trying to constrain him to the truth". What else could that possibly mean?veggiedog:
What, also did you mean when, in Reply 36 you said "I'm suspicious of his motives, and I won't kiss ***".
What "motives" are you suspicious of? And what made you think Tobin was the least bit interested in where you kiss people? In fact, what relevence did those comments have to the conversation in any way?
Well, first off, you are the one who made that claim ... and there was no straw man.veggiedog:
In Reply 31 you asked a question ... "Why do wings have bottom dumps." Tobin's response in Reply 32 was "Every BC needs a Over Pressure Valve, that's what the "bottom dump" really is."
He was answering your question.
Then, in Reply 36 you stated "OPV's are not dump valves."
In fact, they are. Tobin was attempting to point that out to you, but you were more interested in questioning his integrity than in listening to a simple, and correct, answer.
He's trying to give you information.veggiedog:
The problem is, you don't appear to be able to understand it ... personally I think that's because you have an inflated opinion of how much you really know about the subject, and aren't willing to listen to what people with more knowledge are trying to tell you.
Then what, exactly, have you tried to speculate?veggiedog:
It pains me to sit back and watch someone with barely enough experience to be comfortable in the water attacking one of our most respected and knowledgeable professionals. Tobin doesn't have to waste his time with people like you ... and frankly, I'm surprised he bothered responding at all after your first attack.
If you are really interested in learning anything from your participation in this board, drop the "abrasive style". Try listening to what people are saying, rather than questioning their motives and integrity ... there are some incredibly knowledgeable and experienced people here, and they can give you a lot of good information if you'll let them.
Better yet, get ahold of some of this gear you've got questions about and try it for yourself ... since yours is the only opinion you apparently value. But do, please, get a little more experience and develop a bit more knowledge before coming in here and questioning the motives and integrity of people who are trying to help you learn something.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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Geeze, Bob...
... tell him what you really think!
... tell him what you really think!
BigWhiteSquare
Contributor
Seems to be something... rolling around on the floor... is that a... yes it's...
It's veggiedog's head!
Oh my God! The horror! The humanity of it all!
Think I'm... gonna be... sick...
___
It's veggiedog's head!
Oh my God! The horror! The humanity of it all!
Think I'm... gonna be... sick...
___
I won't bother to respond to this until after the weekend, but I can say ya'll are way off base: I was attacking Tobin's argument method rather than the quality of his gear, or his knowledge. But I will point out that the error occurred in your interpretation of my position, not what I was actually claiming.
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That's where you're missing the point ... Tobin wasn't arguing. He was trying to answer a question that you asked. But yes ... you were "attacking". Next time, try "discussing" ... you'll get way more out of the conversation. And "attacking" someone for providing a correct answer to the question you asked ... while insisting that he doesn't know what he's talking about ... really doesn't make you look very informed.veggiedog:
In point of fact, he provided exactly the information you were looking for in Reply 37 ... you either missed it or refused to accept it ...
You're unlikely to get better information than that from anyone ... and coming from someone who designs wings for a living, what makes you think he doesn't know what he's talking about?
FWIW - there was a time when I was as skeptical about this as you appear to be ... being a big fan of donut singles wings. I resolved my skepticsm by diving the DSS wing ... and in doing so discovered that he knows exactly what he's talking about, and that his wing functions exactly as he claims. Without any experience, you are welcome to disagree, but your disagreement is without basis. But while you're entitled to your opinion ... however uninformed it happens to be ... you are NOT entitled to impugn his motives or question his integrity. Not without some attempt to justify your comments. Doing so is irresponsible, to say the least. Frankly, I think you owe the guy an apology.
People come here for information, not to start arguments. Your "abrasive style" will only assure that the very people who are best qualified to answer your questions won't bother trying to talk to you.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)
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veggiedog:
What's with the "ya'll"?
Every time I think it's time to jump in here, Bob (Grateful Diver) has already responded and done far better than I could have.
I've been diving Tobin's DSS rig for about 10 months now, and really appreciate a lot of the design features. Still, I learned quite a bit more about the design from his answers. Some of the things I had wondered about, others didn't even occur to me. I'm glad he's here, and grateful for the learning experience.
Ray (Grateful Reader)
I've been diving Tobin's DSS rig for about 10 months now, and really appreciate a lot of the design features. Still, I learned quite a bit more about the design from his answers. Some of the things I had wondered about, others didn't even occur to me. I'm glad he's here, and grateful for the learning experience.
Ray (Grateful Reader)
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