DSS wing - not a donut - discuss

[GreenDiverDown]

Just a question from a simple-minded reader . . . if you are properly weighted and anticipating your buoyancy changes well, why would you need to vent more than a small amount of air from the wing at any one time? An amount you should be able to get out of either the inflator (which, if you are slightly head up, is venting from both sides) or your rear dump, which admittedly only vents one?

Yah... that's it in a nutshell... small changes and learning how to move air around inside the wing. If you can do it with an oval you can do it with a horseshoe.

 

[drbill]

Tobin- Haven't read all the posts, but I'll raise my reasons for preferring the oval wings over horseshoe. I dive almost exclusively with a donut wing. Why, because I'm "butt up" much of the time filming subjects on the ocean floor or the lower portion of the reef. If I'm already butt up, I don't want to raise my body vertically to vent the wing from the top, I want to vent it from the butt up position. Keeps me right there with my subject and is less likely to scare it away as I'm venting.

Were I horizontal in midwater this would not be much of an issue... but I'm less likely to be in that position while filming.

 

[gcbryan]

Tobin- Haven't read all the posts, but I'll raise my reasons for preferring the oval wings over horseshoe. I dive almost exclusively with a donut wing. Why, because I'm "butt up" much of the time filming subjects on the ocean floor or the lower portion of the reef. If I'm already butt up, I don't want to raise my body vertically to vent the wing from the top, I want to vent it from the butt up position. Keeps me right there with my subject and is less likely to scare it away as I'm venting.

Were I horizontal in midwater this would not be much of an issue... but I'm less likely to be in that position while filming.

If you are filming on the ocean floor how much venting do you actually need to do? Just curious and trying to picture what your needs are.

 

[veggiedog]

I also often dive slightly butt up while close up searching. A standard profile for me is deep first, then ascending in steps as I explore an incline. Bouyancy is almost exclusively a venting thing as a progress through the dive.

I dove a Zeagle ranger for awhile, and it has two dumps on either side of the bottom of the horseshoe. I would vent from both sides, alternating to maintain side to side balance through the dive (mostly just venting from the perceived high side).

I moved to a backplate wing with a DiveRite horseshoe (recwing). Only one dump on the bottom, now I must occasionally orient myself slightly heads up to balance sides (small vents, done over time, add up). I am of the belief that bouyancy solutions should allow for inplace adjustments.

I purchased an OxyCheck signature 30# for my son's single tank rig. I love diving that bladder. Small, compact, pads my butt on the surface, venting in a butt up position is trivial. A minimalist's dream (imo).

Wings can have bottom dumps on both sides, and I am willing to accept the additional failure point as I place functionality over minimalism (I shoot for a minimally functional solution). However, donuts can do what a double bottom dump wing can do without the added failure point, and without the need to manually maintain side-to-side air balance in a slightly butt up position.

 

[drbill]

If you are filming on the ocean floor how much venting do you actually need to do? Just curious and trying to picture what your needs are.

Most of my dives go to max depth first, then I work my way up the slopes (at least when I'm diving my home waters). I "constantly" have to vent as I'm moving up. I also need to dump as much air as possible to ensure I remain stable on the bottom while filming. Of course this is not an issue in the tropics since I don't film "on the bottom" in coral reef environments.

I do re-inflate a bit to give my buoyancy as I swim from film site to the next subject and therefore have to vent again when I resume filming.

 

[Humuhumunukunukuapua'a]

Thanks for the responses, everybody. The argument that a narrower profile makes the difference makes sense to me.

However, drbill makes a lot of sense, too. I often find myself in a "butt up" position and needing to vent. In my current BC (horseshoe), I have two dumps and use them both to dump evenly. The ability to dump both sides with a single rear dump seems a distinct advantage of the donut.

Tobin's points about manufacturing are interesting, too. But there are some donut, dual-layer singles wings out there, like the Oxycheq signature, H Eclipse, and others? Or am I misunderstanding something? The toughness of Tobin's wing is a big selling point for me, and I think I would prefer dual layers to something like the H Pioneer.

Tobin, at this point, do you have plans to introduce a donut singles wing? Understand I am not saying that you should, but I am just wondering if such an item is in the works, or if you feel there is simply no need, since your horseshoe fills the need for a singles wing adequately?

Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to give your thoughts.

Gregg

 

[cool_hardware52]

Thanks for the responses, everybody. The argument that a narrower profile makes the difference makes sense to me.

However, drbill makes a lot of sense, too. I often find myself in a "butt up" position and needing to vent. In my current BC (horseshoe), I have two dumps and use them both to dump evenly. The ability to dump both sides with a single rear dump seems a distinct advantage of the donut.

Tobin's points about manufacturing are interesting, too. But there are some donut, dual-layer singles wings out there, like the Oxycheq signature, H Eclipse, and others? Or am I misunderstanding something? The toughness of Tobin's wing is a big selling point for me, and I think I would prefer dual layers to something like the H Pioneer.

Tobin, at this point, do you have plans to introduce a donut singles wing? Understand I am not saying that you should, but I am just wondering if such an item is in the works, or if you feel there is simply no need, since your horseshoe fills the need for a singles wing adequately?

Again, thanks everyone for taking the time to give your thoughts.

Gregg

Gregg,

There are double bladder donut singles wings made today. Long zippers, some compromises in shape to accomodate the zipper, and added expense. I should point out that our Torus full circle wing for doubles is a double bladder, and does not use a zipper.

How does one make a continuous butt up ascent and vent their Drysuit? Maybe it can be done, but I've never achieved it. When you get your shoulder up to dump the suit the wing will certainly equalize any right vs left imbalance.

If I need to be head down I just put my heals on my butt. Works every time.

I have no plans to build a donut for singles, it's just not necessary. As a designer it's always a risk to rely too much on one's own experience, but with many hundreds of single 30 lbs and 40 lbs, and a few 20 lbs wings in current use, I have many more data points. For me the truest test is that the users like them, and more than one has said that our horseshoe vents as easily as the donuts they have used.


Regards,



Tobin

 

[Wristshot]

Question: How the heck do you remember that user name when you need to type it in?

teknitroxdiver:
Does that mean that you type your user name in each time? Have you ever considered having your computer "remember" you?

Dr. Bill:
I suspect that your diving style is more of an exception rather than "the rule". However, you are smart enough to realize that a donut works better for you and your particular style of diving. *thumbs up*

Tobin:
Thanks for all the great information provided here. I don't dive "head down" all the time, so your horseshoe would probably work just fine for me.

Come to think of it. Ed Parris spent a LOT of time hanging upside down in Bonaire using a DSS single set up, and he never seemed to have problems. Besides, I am working on minimizing the number of times I add or remove air from my BCD per dive. But I digress.

Thanks to all here for some good, useful discussion.


Wristshot

 

[teknitroxdiver]

Nope, it remembers me. I was just thinking about when you have to for some reason log in from another computer, or another SBer uses your computer.

 

[radinator]

I've used both a donut wing and the DSS wing and I haven't seen a difference in usage when trying to dump the wing. I mainly use the DSS wing. I'm generally a horizontal diver.

However, I recently had the boat crew 'hole' my DSS wing by pinching it with the tank-filling fitting and the repair of the inner bladder took all of 30 seconds (+ drying time) after undoing the zipper. I doubt it would have been as easy with the single-walled donut wing.