DSS (Deep Sea Supply)---Warning

[NAM001]

Is this a justification for a vendor to berate, ridicule, insult, verbally attack a client who actually bought something from him and is in need of help from the vendor because the vendor's products has failed and isn't usable?

Are you also stating all that all of the complaint on SB from customers against vendors/LDS/Instructors/etc. shouldn't be on SB and the customer is wrong for complaining on SB "behind the vendor's back"???

In todays society how does anyone definer being berated. if you are ignorant and attempting to talk to an intellectual , the mini mind will either say he talked over my head or he was talking down to me. I have made it a point to look at the content of the discussion and not the delivery of it. Pretend your call is 10$ a minute and let that govern your the time sharing of ones mouth or ears time allocation.

 

[NAM001]

Just adding to this thread how frustrating this move is to customers.

I've got a DSS wing with a leak. It cannot be repaired by me and DSS is closed. I've emailed only to recieve complete radio silence.

So as much as I like my wings (my whole family uses them), I've got a buy a new wing from a different vendor for my upcoming trip.

This sucks.

I see that yo have 2 choices. hold out and get it repaired (quickly may I add) and repeat as necessary. Or go to another manufacturer of a wing that works better for you. for me it was oxycheq because of the incorporated STA tabs and zipper bladder access and left shoulder hose. Ive blown 2 DSS wings and over time i found out it was because i rigged my kit and then traveled to teh site with another kit next to it. during the transit to eh site the tanks bumped and damaged the wing. Now I know the cause. I also know that i can get a different wing and also have a spare bladder that I can replace on site if needed. a bladder is what 50$ and the shipping and repair is probably twice that. and it is done now and not a week later. The loss of the DSS wing forced me to buy a complete doubles wing for 400$ and another trip a 300$ single wing.

 

[tomfcrist]

I ate so much popcorn waiting for Tobin to chime in that I need to buy stock in pop secret.

Bottom line, he has no obligation to be available ever...for any reason. That being said he is readily available via multiple sources.

Can’t get your wing that’s out of warranty fixed right now? Not his problem.

Can’t get your wing that is IN warranty fixed right now? I’ll bet my paycheck that if you call him he will make sure to fix your wing under standard warranty (if it’s a warrantied repair) when he is up and running again..regardless if the warranty is still valid at that time.

Stop crying and making a big deal out of a minor inconvenience. It’s rediculous.

Is Tobin often blunt? Yup. Don’t like it? Take your money elsewhere...that’s your personal choice.

 

[ams511]

"Moral obligation" Please. Do be careful climbing off your high horse. Are you suggesting that if somebody *EVER* offers goods for sale they have incurred a limitless obligation to offer parts and repairs on a near instant basis?

You sold your products with the promise that if the wing gets damaged it will be repaired for a reasonable charge. You made wings that are not user serviceable. Now you are reneging on that promise. The OP's wing is not some obsolete product that was purchased decades ago. It was purchased less than two years ago. What about the people that bought your product before you closed up shop? Did you tell them you have no obligation to fix the wing even though it is still under warranty? Some people believe their word is their bond, I see you are not one of them.

Can you direct me to the ethics depart for ZipDrives? I have a couple I purchased and they need repair.

So you are comparing servicing a product that is 18 months old and still in your current catalog with a 20+ year old technology device which CD burners made obsolete? This is truly an apples to oranges comparison. My father's Jeep is 15 years old, if he takes it to the dealer they will still service it. How about we make a closer comparison. If I want a new bladder for a Halcyon wing I can just order one from Extreme Exposure, from DSS I can't and never could. If I damage my DRIS wing, I call Mike and he will patch it for free.

The scuba business is awash in stories, many have appeared here, of people returning goods for repair and either never seeing them again or the repair takes 3-4-5-6-7-8-9+ months.

Just because others are bad actors does that make it right for you to be one? There are other stories of vendors providing excellent customer service; DGX, VDH, DRIS, TDL, etc. Tell me as a consumer who would you want to purchase from?

I'm moving. It's proved to be more difficult and require more time than I anticipated.

You are not a young man, you should know moves always take longer than expected. Also why should we show concern towards you when you show no concern for your customers? You decided to move, no one else did.

If we hadn't tried to move we would have absolutely closed. If I succeed in moving (remains to be seen) I might be able to again offer service. Perhaps you can detail for me the proper "moral' choice between these two options.......

Thank you for your honesty. I mean it, no sarcasm intended. So you are telling us that you may be out of business permanently. This is good to know for people waiting for you to reopen.

Most of what you posted is opinion and not fact. It reveals that you never quite understood our system, and it's benefits. Having said that I simply cannot devote much time to correcting your nonsense on a forum that has long ago ceased to be very meaningful. There are some great folks here, but a handful seem to relish smearing manufacturers, and the net effect has been to chase off most manufacturers. Bravo, well done!

I understand your system well. I have 2 LCD wings and a stainless and Kydex plate. The only opinion I made is when I called some of your "features" "gimmicks". As far as the materials and workmanship go those are facts based on the wings I have and your public posts. As far as smearing manufacturers go, the first time I saw it on SB was when you were arguing with Patrick from Oxycheq. The only manufacturer I do not recommend is DSS.

I have a good friend in the business who is waaaay more internet savy than I. Analytics etc. I called him one day when I saw his goods and his company being smeared on ScubaBoard by one of the usual suspects. He laughed and said it was of no concern to him given the small and rapidly shrinking membership and views the threads here get.

I would agree with your friend if he works for Aqualung, Scubapro, or any one of the large international scuba manufacturers. You know the ones that have equipment in hundreds if not thousands of dive shops around the world. These are the guys that have dive shops working for them selling gear. You are a small business, your platform is the internet. I would not have heard of you if it was not for Scubaboard. When I Google DSS the first thing I see is bad reviews. (I did not leave them) If you are not concerned with this, then you are being foolish.

Also I would disagree with your friend's assessment of declining membership on Scubaboard. People drop out of SB and other sites because they give up diving. These people are of no concern because if they give up diving they are not going to be buying equipment. The people that join SB are of your concern because they are generally newer divers that may be buying equipment. As long a SB keeps getting new members what is said on here should be of your concern.

Tiny fish in an ever shrinking bowl, who still think the world gives a damn....

You must care because you responded to my posts twice.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

I highly recommend you just cut your losses with DSS and look into a VDH Argonaut wing. It has a 360 loop zipper so you can access the bladder and do repairs if needed, and/or rinse it out really well, and inspect it once in a while if you want. They use a newer fiber reinforced material for the bladder which is black. It’s thinner than the clear urethane type but much tougher against pinch flats. And if it did get a pinch flat I’ll bet it would be a super simple fix with a patch and some aquaseal.
I’m pretty sure DSS is the only brand that has an inner bladder in a wing that is sewn shut. I never understood this and therefore never bothered with them.
I’m a donut wing guy and one of my criteria is they must have an accessable bladder.
Other than that I’ve never had any dealings with Tobin personally so I can’t comment on his demeanor, except for what I’ve read here.

 

[ams511]

Bottom line, he has no obligation to be available ever...for any reason. That being said he is readily available via multiple sources.

Can’t get your wing that’s out of warranty fixed right now? Not his problem.

Are you an attorney or just play one on Scubaboard? He may have a legal obligation to fix the wing because he made promises that he would fix wing damage for a reasonable cost. If people relied on that promise when they bought the wing then he could be responsible for legal damages.

Can’t get your wing that is IN warranty fixed right now? I’ll bet my paycheck that if you call him he will make sure to fix your wing under standard warranty (if it’s a warrantied repair) when he is up and running again..regardless if the warranty is still valid at that time.

How can Tobin fix an in warranty wing when his equipment is in multiple states and his materials and inventory is packed up? These are his words not mine.

Stop crying and making a big deal out of a minor inconvenience. It’s rediculous.

So someone misses a dive season because of a damaged wing and you call this minor. What if this happened to you?

Is Tobin often blunt? Yup. Don’t like it? Take your money elsewhere...that’s your personal choice.

I find it interesting that you defend him. When I see people condoning rudeness and poor customer service and blaming the diver for complaining, these also become people that I will not do business with.

 

[tomfcrist]

He may have a legal obligation to fix the wing because he made promises that he would fix wing damage for a reasonable cost. If people relied on that promise when they bought the wing then he could be responsible for legal damages

Sigh...nobody has a legal obligation to provide their services for hire...ever. Watch the news much?

Certainly not when the business is NOT OPEN FOR Business.

How can Tobin fix an in warranty wing when his equipment is in multiple states and his materials and inventory is packed up?

You should re read what you quoted. I specifically said once he is back up and running. Since you are going to sea lawyer this “he” infers his actual business.

So someone misses a dive season because of a damaged wing and you call this minor. What if this happened to you?

If someone misses a dive season because they can’t get a damaged wing fixed out of warranty, it’s because they are too cheap to go buy another wing, which compared to the cost of an entire season of diving...is chump change. God forbid that person rent if they are too broke to buy.

When I see people condoning rudeness and poor customer service and blaming the diver for complaining, these also become people that I will not do business with.

Well I don’t own a business, nor would I give a rip if you patronized it...so there’s that. Go bark up someone else’s tree with that statement...I’m not playing your silly little game.

 

[ams511]

Sigh...nobody has a legal obligation to provide their services for hire...ever. Watch the news much?

Certainly not when the business is NOT OPEN FOR Business.

I don't get legal advice from the news but from my education. If you make someone a promise and they rely on that promise it is called "fraud in the inducement", this could be criminal but that is up to a jury to decide. I never said they could force Tobin to fix the wing, but he could be liable for monetary damages. For a $300 wing it is not worth the effort to take it to court.

You should re read what you quoted. I specifically said once he is back up and running. Since you are going to sea lawyer this “he” infers his actual business.

We don't know if DSS will ever be back up and running. He said so himself. [/QUOTE]

If someone misses a dive season because they can’t get a damaged wing fixed out of warranty, it’s because they are too cheap to go buy another wing, which compared to the cost of an entire season of diving...is chump change. God forbid that person rent if they are too broke to buy.

Why do you care about the warranty? As the Chairman mentioned, a pinch flat was never covered. You never answered my question, would you be happy having to go out and buy another wing when the seller said if it breaks he will fix it at a reasonable charge?

Well I don’t own a business, nor would I give a rip if you patronized it...so there’s that. Go bark up someone else’s tree with that statement...I’m not playing your silly little game.

You claim you are NAUI instructor so I assumed you were still active and giving lessons. If you are not then why advertise it? I do not live in Virginia so I would not take lessons with you anyway. However other divers may feel the same way as I do.

 

[JohnnyC]

So, maybe I'm missing something, but the OP never mentions Tobin saying that he WOULD not fix the wing, simply that due to the current state of his business, he was UNABLE to fix the wing, nor sell him a new one. Now, it seems to me that you can't get blood from a stone, at least it's never worked when I've tried. So, it doesn't matter if Tobin was the nicest guy in the world, if all of his stuff is in a sea container on the way to Mars, which apparently it might as well be, he can't do anything. I understand how frustrating that can be as a consumer, but I'm not sure how that could be considered illegal. There's no law against being a jerk, that seems to be really all that Tobin is guilty of.

For all intents and purposes DSS is out of business. Whether or not it returns to business it remains to be seen. Literally, a business cannot sell you a product they do not have, nor can they provide service that they are incapable of providing. In this case, the business neither has product, nor the ability to service anything at this time. I don't know how that is in any way illegal. "Apple, sell me this iPhone!" "We can't, it's not in stock." "You have to sell it to me, it's illegal not to!....." If a company goes out of business, it's not like you could claim even a lifetime full warranty, let alone try and get them to repair something that's out of warranty.

It's a perfectly valid critique to post about his attitude, but there's nothing wrong with being unable to provide product or support when he's moving a factory.

 

[eelnoraa]

I don't think OP or the thread should be about legal or illegal. Making a claim that can't be fulfilled is mainly bad publicity in this case. For $300 worth of a item repair, bringing lawyer is hardly a smart move. After all, if making a verbal claim can stand up in court, Elon Musk would have been in jail for life for multiple counts.