DSMB norms in Cozumel?

[cvchief]

There are clearly two different issues here:

1. Everyone should learn to use an SMB and should carry one.

2. Don't go playing, "I am so prepared and ready I will follow my own procedures and not follow the plan."

While I am sure Christi is posting a good ideas for being safe and planning for emergencies, none of that is required or encouraged for a regular dive with my op and others I imagine. Perhaps it is with her's. I am not commenting which is better, just that one should follow the Op's instruction rather than going 'cowboy' with their SMB and doing their own thing.

 

[Mossman]

If you mean me going up a bit I am not surfacing. I am above the group and able to safely surface solo if need be. By going up a little (or near safety stop depth), I solve my conservative dive computer constraints and avoid having the dive terminated early for others. I still end the dive with the group.

That is a pain to have to worry about terminating the dive for the entire group. I hate that pressure so much that I dive with a dive op that doesn't require the entire group to surface when I do, let alone making me ascend to swim against current in mid-water.

If your so concerned, why not dive nitrox, get a less conservative computer, or just let the thing go into deco and do the stop. Unless you've been really deep for a while, you'll most likely just end up with a mandatory 3 min stop instead of an optional one. I doubt it will make you do the 22 min stop that I inflicted on poor Jeremy.

 

[Christi]

There are clearly two different issues here:

1. Everyone should learn to use an SMB and should carry one.

2. Don't go playing, "I am so prepared and ready I will follow my own procedures and not follow the plan."

While I am sure Christi is posting a good ideas for being safe and planning for emergencies, none of that is required or encouraged for a regular dive with my op and others I imagine. Perhaps it is with her's. I am not commenting which is better, just that one should follow the Op's instruction rather than going 'cowboy' with their SMB and doing their own thing.

Going"cowboy"? That is what you call being aware, prudent and proactive with regards to your own safety?? WOW! If I was ever on a boat anywhere and they implied that I could not or actually told me "don't deploy or use your own surface marker because the captain won't be watching for it" I would run not walk away from that boat!

Having your own safety equipment and knowing how to use it if needed has NOTHING AT ALL to do with "not following the plan."

 

[cvchief]

Going"cowboy"? That is what you call being aware, prudent and proactive with regards to your own safety?? WOW! If I was ever on a boat anywhere and they implied that I could not or actually told me "don't deploy or use your own surface marker because the captain won't be watching for it" I would run not walk away from that boat!

Having your own safety equipment and knowing how to use it if needed has NOTHING AT ALL to do with "not following the plan."

Christi,

My dear you are picking nits. I know you are not saying that my op's standard operating procedure of:

1. Let the DM know you are at 750;
2. Let her shoot the SMB for you.
3. Use the knots at 15 feet if needed for your three minute safety stop.
4. Surface and REMAIN by the SMB until the boat comes to you.

Is less safe than:

1. Get low on air,
2. shoot your own SMB that maybe as a vacation diver you do once a year.
3. Maintain your own 15 feet with your crappy buoyancy skills.
4. Surface.

I am saying for ALOT of vacation divers who DON"T practice SMB and DON'T have great buoyancy skills, this is a SAFE way to do it.

What is your plan? Do you test all your cruise ship divers to make sure they can do it all themselves? Make sure of their boyancy? I doubt it. You probably have skilled DM's who take care of your divers who aren't Loyd Bridges. As we dive, there is no need to deploy your own SMB on a regular dive. Are you saying this is unsafe?

As for going cowboy, I was referring the example of a diver who was on the boat with me. Heard the same dive briefing that I did and then went cowboy and shot and SMB at the end of the dive. Failed to follow the plan or suggest a change. If you want to shoot an SMB, fine. Don't go cowboy; instead discuss with the Captain and DM before the dive so everyone expects it. That is how I practiced mine.

 

[Christi]

I have one that can be deployed on the surface if it was needed. It was never needed. I am well aware I am responsible for my own safety.


The dive plan communicated was to use the DM's SMB. It was very clearly communicated. For the op I dove with, the captain would not be looking to pick someone up unless they were using the DM's SMB. I'm sure he'd figure it out if someone came up on another one, but that was not the dive plan.


This seems to be an entirely different issue. Do people really take the time to shoot a DSMB when there is an emergency? And if the only reason that I'd need to shoot my own is because I got separated, how does the captain watch two groups at once?


How do I predict what time said emergency will occur?


I never said all ops do it this way- my first post clearly states "the op I dove with". I think if the thread hadn't been so derailed by across suggesting I shouldn't even comment, we'd be more likely to learn how other ops handle this. Why not share how your op handles this? Does each diver shoot their own SMB, or does the DM do it as people surface?

Yes, and you have dove with ONE op, you have limited experience - that's ok - we've all been new - that is not a slam, it is a simple fact. FYI, it is NOT standard procedure for a diver not to be permitted to deploy an SMB on the surface if needed (note the difference in deploying at the surface vs. shooting from depth - I do not recommend or encourage those without the experience to shoot from depth - blowing an SMB up on the surface is something every diver can and should be able to do).

As for the time frame - It was an EXAMPLE - some divers know more or less how long they will able to stay down given the dive plan - this too will come with more experience and personal awareness of your diving skills/abilities.

Having your own SMB on the surface is not under any circumstances breaking ANY dive plan ever regardless of who you are diving with! If you find yourself surfacing alone for whatever reason and there is not another SMB within arms reach of you - then you need to have one of your own so that you are visible to passing boats, etc. - period!

Some of the comments in this thread have gone beyond baffling my mind with the follow the leader mentality and the inability to differentiate between a dive plan and protecting yourself on the surface.

That's all I've got!

 

[cvchief]

Well I have some idea of diving with other ops.

You don't need to deploy your own SMB at the surface barbecue there is a BIG YELLOW ONE right there. You are encouraged in a proper dive briefing to pick it up and wave it if need be. It will be right with you until the boat picks you up.

Now tell my why a diver needs two? One for each hand?

It baffles me that you make the assumption that my op is encouraging unsafe practices. You well know better than that. You should be more judicious in your comments.

---------- Post added February 18th, 2014 at 02:23 PM ----------

You aren't only insulting Skittles.....

 

[Skittl1321]

Having your own SMB on the surface is not under any circumstances breaking ANY dive plan ever regardless of who you are diving with! If you find yourself surfacing alone for whatever reason and there is not another SMB within arms reach of you - then you need to have one of your own so that you are visible to passing boats, etc. - period!

I'm not sure it was ever said it was. Under what I described as the norm for the op I dove with, an SMB is within an arms reach of you at all times. It just isn't the diver's SMB.

FYI, it is NOT standard procedure for a diver not to be permitted to deploy an SMB on the surface if needed

I don't believe I ever said a diver wasn't permitted to deploy an SMB on the surface by the op I dove with. But they are set up so that it is not necessary. Besides, you'll be picked up before you even got it blown up. However, I thought this thread was about shooting from underwater (at least, that was my understanding of the word deployable)- in which case, the op I dove with does prefer that you do not shoot one on your own, under normal operating conditions. And in my experience, it was not necessary to be able to shoot your own. I see from other responses, I am not the only diver to dive without a line for my SMB.


For the benefit of the original poster, as well as my own curiosity on how other operators work: could you answer whether divers with your op all deploy their own SMB on the safety stop?

 

[Christi]

Well I have some idea of diving with other ops.

You don't need to deploy your own SMB at the surface barbecue there is a BIG YELLOW ONE right there. You are encouraged in a proper dive briefing to pick it up and wave it if need be. It will be right with you until the boat picks you up.

Now tell my why a diver needs two? One for each hand?

It baffles me that you make the assumption that my op is encouraging unsafe practices. You well know better than that. You should be more judicious in your comments.

Chief - YOU are nitpicking - read what I wrote again - and I never implied that your dive op engages in unsafe practices - I know that the opposite is true. I do doubt that she would ever tell a diver that they were not allowed to use their own SMB - I think that is a misunderstanding on someone's part and/or someone's tendency to take every word literally without applying the circumstances.

Discourage a diver from shooting an SMB from depth - YES - but blowing one up on the surface if you find yourself surfacing alone and without another one (again, read what I wrote - you've got some selective reading going on today) - anyone can and should do this in this situation.

Ok - I actually have work to do - don't have time to play semantics here today

Play nice and have a beautiful day!

 

[mstevens]

Do people really take the time to shoot a DSMB when there is an emergency??

Yes.

Emergencies are when it's most important to follow procedures and take things step-by-step.

 

[cvchief]

Chief - YOU are nitpicking - read what I wrote again - and I never implied that your dive op engages in unsafe practices - I know that the opposite is true. I do doubt that she would ever tell a diver that they were not allowed to use their own SMB - I think that is a misunderstanding on someone's part and/or someone's tendency to take every word literally without applying the circumstances.

Discourage a diver from shooting an SMB from depth - YES - but blowing one up on the surface if you find yourself surfacing alone and without another one (again, read what I wrote - you've got some selective reading going on today) - anyone can and should do this in this situation.

Ok - I actually have work to do - don't have time to play semantics here today

Play nice and have a beautiful day!

Well, I guess you did come in late to the conversation.

Yes, my OP says you don't need to shoot your own SMB because you will be near the DM's and it is suggested that you use the DM's SMB because the captain knows it well. I guess you aren't saying you would run away from a boat that says there is no need to shoot your own because it will be right next to you?

I believe if YOU go back and read carefully, no one said DON'T shoot an SMB if you are all alone. Perhaps I should better have read your comments to see they really didn't apply to what was being said. My bad there. I did find your comments to Skittles, who I observed to be just fine in the water, as condescending. I took the liberty of feeling the umbrage for her. I am sure you didn't mean it, but is sure did come out that way.