Dsat

[janitor_69]

bridgediver once bubbled...
Not sure what janitor has but let us know how you did it. I'm sure my pal would rather do it that way. He's been working towards it for over 6 months so far

well, i went to padi website, printed out the form for tec deep instructor application, put in my padi msdt number, filled in my visa card number, bought the tec deep exam, filled it up, went to a padi tec deep instructor who checked it and signed the form for that part and logged dives verification, then called to a tdi instructor who i was assisting couple years ago in some courses, got a paper for assisting 2 technical level courses, took a copy of my tdi advanced trimix cert, took one photo and mailed the application to padi. took me a day of running around and quite a few phone calls so indeed, it was not just paperwork.

>>I wouldn't want to do training with you or anyone that would >>say the DESAT program is "too much for the purpose."

i think that there is too much stuff for doing 50 meter air dives, same as there is no point teaching open water divers about wreck penetration techniques, or teaching a nitrox diver how to blend helium, sorry if my english is not always so good but that is what i meant with "too much for the purpose". if you look at the outline, i just think it is too much.

what i meant about the materials, is that they are very good quality as every material what padi/dsat does since there is lots of $$ behind. would be best to teach tdi but use dsat material.

 

[DiveTub]

janitor_69 once bubbled...


well, i went to padi website, printed out the form for tec deep instructor application, put in my padi msdt number, filled in my visa card number, bought the tec deep exam, filled it up, went to a padi tec deep instructor who checked it and signed the form for that part and logged dives verification, then called to a tdi instructor who i was assisting couple years ago in some courses, got a paper for assisting 2 technical level courses, took a copy of my tdi advanced trimix cert, took one photo and mailed the application to padi. took me a day of running around and quite a few phone calls so indeed, it was not just paperwork.

>>I wouldn't want to do training with you or anyone that would >>say the DESAT program is "too much for the purpose."

i think that there is too much stuff for doing 50 meter air dives, same as there is no point teaching open water divers about wreck penetration techniques, or teaching a nitrox diver how to blend helium, sorry if my english is not always so good but that is what i meant with "too much for the purpose". if you look at the outline, i just think it is too much.

what i meant about the materials, is that they are very good quality as every material what padi/dsat does since there is lots of $$ behind. would be best to teach tdi but use dsat material.

You did not mention
Have successfully completed the Tec Deep Instructor Standards Exam and the Tec Deep Instructor Theory and Practical Application Exam. (Testing will be available at select IEs.)

You must do the Instructor Exam at an IE or I think you can now do it with a qualified CD you can't do it on your own ?

testMeet the peer review waterskill requirements listed on the DSAT Tec Deep Instructor Application through the attesting signature of a DSAT Tec Deep Instructor or a PADI Instructor with an equivalent rating.

You do actually have to get in the water for this, not just get it signed it off ?

 

[janitor_69]

Sydney_Diver once bubbled...


You did not mention
Have successfully completed the Tec Deep Instructor Standards Exam and the Tec Deep Instructor Theory and Practical Application Exam. (Testing will be available at select IEs.)

You must do the Instructor Exam at an IE or I think you can now do it with a qualified CD you can't do it on your own ?

i didn't know that... well app went through. where does it say you have to do at an ie, i just read it has to be signed by dsat instr.

testMeet the peer review waterskill requirements listed on the DSAT Tec Deep Instructor Application through the attesting signature of a DSAT Tec Deep Instructor or a PADI Instructor with an equivalent rating.

You do actually have to get in the water for this, not just get it signed it off ? [/B]

those skills i did on my iantd course so my instr signed it off...

 

[VaJames]

I can hardly read the post for all the BS contained within. Come on dude you have been caught in a lie. Troll alert?

James

 

[janitor_69]

VaJames once bubbled...
I can hardly read the post for all the BS contained within. Come on dude you have been caught in a lie. Troll alert?

James

So don't read it then. I haven't written any BS, trolls or whatever. It's about time to stop this post since you guys just don't get it, gotta go now, have a tec deep course starting..

ut:

 

[fins wake]

just got my dsat tec deep instructor rating. not planning to teach that, just took it since you can get it (like any other padi instructor rating) just with sending a few papers and money. no dives or courses involved.

The fallacies,inaccuracies, errors and (most likely) down-right lies inherent in the above statement have already been mentioned. The standards have been clearly set out. What's more, where I live there is only one TecDeep instructor in the whole country. Several other skilled tec instructors attempted to gain the accreditation, but only one passed the academic exam which is - apparently - very difficult. (If the student course is anything to go by, this is definitely correct. Yes, I have experience of the course with the TecRec instructor in question. He is also a Trimix Instructor for another technical agency.)

In addition, I've spoken to Instructor Trainers from a third training agency in another part of the world. When I wanted to do this agency course they made the point that with the DSAT background I really was wasting my money.

Now, if there's any truth to janitor_69's claims, I'd like him to reveal himself to substantiate them. Personall I think he's a troll. The (highly unlikely) alternative would make him a cowboy instructor, someone who is teaching a course for which he is not qualified. I would take no course, recrational or otherwise, from him.

Please note, I'm not saying other agency courses (IANTD, TDI, ANDI) aren't very good. They are (depending on the instructor)! I'm just strongly opposing this troll arguing that

you can get it (like any other padi instructor rating)

That is manifestly not true.

They have some listed qualifications as to experience levels and required certs but it seems people look the other way once $$$ get involved...

If you know of any such examples occuring, you have an obligation as a PADI professional to report it to QA, Joe. You know that.

He was certified to teach other instructors and in his own words NEVER did any deco dives.. Thats scary..

Name and shame. To PADI QA if not publicly. It's your duty! This is a clear breach of standards, no two ways about it. DSAT TecDeep training dives Nine, Ten, Eleven and Twelve are all decompression dives. If the CD in question is a TecDeep instructor and hasn't done any decompression dives himself, he won't remain a TecRec instructor for long. And it's your duty to report him as a PADI MSDT. I repeat, you should know that.

I'm not implying there aren't any good DSAT instructors out there it just seems they went away from their original goal that not everyone was suited to become a dsat instructor... It seems they want to get the numbers up....

Is this based on your one example? Is this something that could happen at other organizations, such as ANDI? Could this happen in the rebreather field? Or in the trimix field? Or both ...?

I don't deny that there are aspects of the PADI course that are difficult to accept in certain regions. There is a reason there has been no TecDeep students certified in Sweden (but quite a few ApprenticeTecs). The main reason being the requirement that you exceed 48 metres on at least one TecDeep dive. This is a big hurdle in cold water, and not really a brilliant idea on air.

But I find the unsubstantiated comments that PADI is allowing the TecDeep standards to slip just another example of PADI-bashing. The fact that some PADI instructors are participating is very puzzling.

 

[padiscubapro]

fins wake once bubbled...
Please note, I'm not saying other agency courses (IANTD, TDI, ANDI) aren't very good. They are (depending on the instructor)! I'm just strongly opposing this troll arguing that That is manifestly not true. If you know of any such examples occuring, you have an obligation as a PADI professional to report it to QA, Joe. You know that. Name and shame. To PADI QA if not publicly. It's your duty! This is a clear breach of standards, no two ways about it. DSAT TecDeep training dives Nine, Ten, Eleven and Twelve are all decompression dives. If the CD in question is a TecDeep instructor and hasn't done any decompression dives himself, he won't remain a TecRec instructor for long. And it's your duty to report him as a PADI MSDT. I repeat, you should know that. Is this based on your one example? Is this something that could happen at other organizations, such as ANDI? Could this happen in the rebreather field? Or in the trimix field? Or both ...?

I wasn't at his training session to teach the dsat stuff so its only second hand stuff.. He told me all he had to do was a few simulated deco dives and I don't remember how deep he had to go.. I do know has done lots of ow instructor and specialty classes and heard he does a good job at them.

During the training I did with him we did 75m or 80m.. I don't remember exactly.. We were training several potential instrutors and we had more instructor trainers than there were students present (used it as a mini summit - we had ITS from 5 countries).. So everyone involved got the most out of the time and saw several styles of teaching..

The one incident isn't my only feel for the dsat progression. I have talked to many tecrec instructors over the past year plus and some were very good others, I really wonder..

I doubt it will happen at ANDI since its not ANDIs goal to be the biggest... just to grow at a reasonable rate.. In ANDI's history there have only been 110 ITs made (my number is higher but thats another story), in fact another IT can not be made in a region there is already an active IT present.. so no competition to cause short cuts. In fact I have trained some of my local competition to teach classes that I teach(diver level)... short cutting just isn't an issue, besdies any tech instructor short cutting will be caught very quickly since EVERY tech student gets a questioneer along with all RB students, so if someone is not doing the right thing, they will get caught.

I doubt ANDI is perfect but we try and stick to our standards and not bow to pressure.

I am a long time supporter of PADI for their recreational classes and I love the materials (I do like the older style of lecture driven classes as opposed to the now show the video and cover the key points thats done now..) I don't do alot of recreation stuff these days, since my time is consumed with my tech and rebreather classes just enough to stay current....

 

[fins wake]

I wasn't at his training session to teach the dsat stuff so its only second hand stuff

Okay, that figures ...

He told me all he had to do was a few simulated deco dives and I don't remember how deep he had to go

No contradiction here. He might only be teaching the Apprentice Tec portion of the course and this is indeed simulated decompression dives (just like IANTD or TDI Advanced Nitrox). If on the other hand, all his dives are simulated decompression dives, he is in clear breach of standards. This is then his personal failing, not PADI:s, but I remind you that any active PADI professional is dutybound (for the sake of student safety - a laudable aim) to report this to PADI Quality Assurance ...

I have talked to many tecrec instructors over the past year plus and some were very good others, I really wonder..

This is probably true, but I venture this goes for all agencies. Even ANDI ...

short cutting just isn't an issue, besdies any tech instructor short cutting will be caught very quickly since EVERY tech student gets a questioneer along with all RB students, so if someone is not doing the right thing, they will get caught.

Same with the TecRec course, though, and besides, the standards for each exercise and dive is clearly laid out in the manual.

I doubt ANDI is perfect but we try and stick to our standards and not bow to pressure.

That's a laudable aim. I also particularly like ANDI:s insistence of 16 hours of theory in the Inspiration course, for example. So sure, ANDI is a good agency. But methinks there's still a lot of uninformed conjecture about the TecRec course.

Oh, and I still believe janitor_69 is a troll ...

 

[sweatfrog]

It looks to me like the original question in this thread is being ignored. With that in mind, the advantage of extended range courses from agencies other than Dsat is in the small bites the customers can take. With the Dsat Course, the extensive time to complete this excellent course is an obsticle that customers need to understand upfront. That doesn't even tackle the two tests that most teckies couldn't pass without extensive studying.

With that said, you are spot on in regards to your comments sydney_diver.

As for you janitor_69, please refrain from making comments about something you obviously don't know, or have any knowledge. If you want to complete your Dsat course as an Instructor, you must take the tests from either a qualified CD or accomplish that at an IE.

I have heard people complain that PADI/Dsat wants to lower the bar. This course is definately not in that realm and shows that excellent materials can be produced, not just copies out of someones laptop.

 

[scubaguy]

So don't read it then. I haven't written any BS, trolls or whatever. It's about time to stop this post since you guys just don't get it, gotta go now, have a tec deep course starting..

ut:

I am waiving the bullsh$%^& flag on this crap.