Drysuit Training Poll

[bwerb]

JoelW once bubbled...
is the instructor liable for giving the instructions even though he/she was not contracted to teach a full class.
JoelW

I'm NOT a lawyer but...I'll assume each state is somewhat different and each situation is somewhat different...I believe that once someone is "identified" as an "expert" they start to share in the liability. I'd also have to assume that if I'm teaching you something and you totally mess it up...hey...not my fault...get a life if you want to sue me...I live in Canada...tort laws here say that you pay MY court costs if I have to defend myself against your frivolous lawsuit ... Seriously... I don't know the answer, I know that when I'm rockclimbing, if I point out to someone who I do not know that they are liable to kill themselves if they use "that crap" for an anchor and the in fact DO injure themselves, they can implicate me in the lawsuit for not making them change their anchor. However...if I keep my mouth shut and they injure themselves...I don't get sued because there were no "experts" around.

I hope someone can help us out with an answer...NortheastWrecks where are you?

Brian

 

[GP]

JoelW once bubbled...
Here is a sideways question. If an instructor gives instruction out of the guise of a class are they high on the lawsuit list if things go pear shaped (euphemism for fubar, euphemism for screwed up) for the unofficial instructee.

For example, if in this case the instructee ends up turning into an inverted polaris and gets damaged is the instructor liable for giving the instructions even though he/she was not contracted to teach a full class.

JoelW

In my example the instructor would not be liable because we both signed a waiver as did everyone in the pool session I believe.

 

[bwerb]

GP once bubbled...

we both signed a waiver as did everyone in the pool session I believe.

I'm a HUGE believer in personally responsibility and I wouldn't sue unless there was MAJOR negligence involved but, I always wondered if the "waivers" we sign would hold-up in court.

Brian

 

[MikeFerrara]

JoelW once bubbled...
Here is a sideways question. If an instructor gives instruction out of the guise of a class are they high on the lawsuit list if things go pear shaped (euphemism for fubar, euphemism for screwed up) for the unofficial instructee.

For example, if in this case the instructee ends up turning into an inverted polaris and gets damaged is the instructor liable for giving the instructions even though he/she was not contracted to teach a full class.

JoelW

You can be hit with a lawsuit for anything. However, in theory, agency standards help make our actions defensible. The insurance company helps give me the means to defend myself. The insurance company insists that everything I do be within standards. If I act outside of training standards the insurance is null and void.

In the case of a drysuit training, it isn't required that you take a class. We can even do OW check out dives in a drysuit. PADI only requires an additional orientation session in confined water. If someone wanted some help getting started with a dry suit but didn't want to take a class. I would have them sign releases and use the standards for the confined water orientation.

 

[VaJames]

In Central Va no shop will rent you a drysuit without a card. They don't care how much experience you have and I can see where that would be frustrating to some people. I bought a drysuit recently and did the training dives yesterday. (Saturday) Its also standard here that if you buy the suit you get the course free. Just my 2 cents. James

 

[mddolson]

Do we teach dry suit diving techniques: YES.

I am apolled at the number of drysuit specialty courses that are sold , and certifications offered.

When our shop sells a dry suit to a new drysuit diver, we take them out and conduct drysuit orientation and training dives with them. That's part of the service we provide, we loan out a videoand text.

No added fees, no specialty C card, just propper training in the use of the gear they purcahsed.

Mike D

 

[MikeFerrara]

mddolson once bubbled...
Do we teach dry suit diving techniques: YES.

I am apolled at the number of drysuit specialty courses that are sold , and certifications offered.

When our shop sells a dry suit to a new drysuit diver, we take them out and conduct drysuit orientation and training dives with them. That's part of the service we provide, we loan out a videoand text.

No added fees, no specialty C card, just propper training in the use of the gear they purcahsed.

Mike D

When we sell a suit, the dry suit text, class AND certification is included.

At least that's how it always has been. Now days though we are being forced to sell at lower and lower markups and that may put an end to the class being included. We will most likely end up offering a package price so we can sell the suit cheaper. Also, then someone can compare the value.

All our retail prices have been comming way down and class prices going way up. However recent actions being taken by manufacturers though are making that difficult also.

 

[MikeFerrara]

mddolson once bubbled...
Do we teach dry suit diving techniques: YES.

I am apolled at the number of drysuit specialty courses that are sold , and certifications offered.

Why?
Divers take specialty classes for fun and an introduction to something new. We charge them for providing that service. Where is the problem?

 

[Lead_carrier]

MechDiver once bubbled...

Lets all wait until the poll is over and see if it accomplishes anything.

MD

It will accomplish about as much as the DIR devotees pushing DIR as the only way to dive and the DIR avoidees saying it is totally useless.

It will accomplish it's mission, to get different opinions.. and that's mine. :wacko:

 

[tinman]

Genesis once bubbled...
IMHO of course.

I believe that using a drysuit as a BC is both dangerous and unnecessary.

You HAVE a BC and, assuming you've already been diving, you know how to use it.

For those who say "but I have to deal with the extra task loading" I respond "no you don't - at least not much."

Look at the reality here - dive with the dump wide open, and there is little gas in the suit. You add only when the squeeze gets uncomfortable, and only until its not uncomfortable. You only do it, obviously, on the way down. And you're prompted when you need it too - its not a matter of remembering, you will be reminded

The risks of a runaway ascent are WAY lower this way, since there is so much less gas in the suit to start with.

In fact, if you DO start to drift up feet-first, you can fin against it, since you have some time before things snowball. With 2-3x as much air in the suit, that might not be true....

Never mind that a drysuit is not designed to hold PRESSURE; its designed to hold OUT water. Very different designs to do very different things....

I interviewed the local shops when I bought my suit, and came to the conclusion that the correct choice for me was to eschew formal training and just teach myself. Blew a tank in the pool and then did a few weenie dives to get used to it - by the second one I found it just as easy to deal with as diving wet; at this point I don't see a difference in task loading or protocol at all...

...Yeah, what he said...So is the counter argument simply that it is what suit manufacturer's recommend? I'm open minded, but there doesn't appear to be any circumstances - short of those amazing men in their cold, dark caves on The Rock - where drysuit as primary bouyancy device makes sense. Am I wrong...