Drysuit Training Poll

[SubMariner]

all drysuit couses seem to teach using the suit for bouyancy...it just seems dumb.

Why don't the standards teach reality?

I think it is a good idea to have someone go over the new techniques with you and keep an eye out for explosive surfacing but it just doesn't make sense to me to take a course to learn how to do it wrong

There are two schools of thought in drysuit diving: using the drysuit for bouyancy u/w (and the BC only at the surface) AND using the BC for bouyancy (only putting in enough air in the suit to offest squeeze).

There are pros and cons to BOTH methods. Why start a flame war over it?

~SubMariner~

 

[Genesis]

IMHO of course.

I believe that using a drysuit as a BC is both dangerous and unnecessary.

You HAVE a BC and, assuming you've already been diving, you know how to use it.

For those who say "but I have to deal with the extra task loading" I respond "no you don't - at least not much."

Look at the reality here - dive with the dump wide open, and there is little gas in the suit. You add only when the squeeze gets uncomfortable, and only until its not uncomfortable. You only do it, obviously, on the way down. And you're prompted when you need it too - its not a matter of remembering, you will be reminded

The risks of a runaway ascent are WAY lower this way, since there is so much less gas in the suit to start with.

In fact, if you DO start to drift up feet-first, you can fin against it, since you have some time before things snowball. With 2-3x as much air in the suit, that might not be true....

Never mind that a drysuit is not designed to hold PRESSURE; its designed to hold OUT water. Very different designs to do very different things....

I interviewed the local shops when I bought my suit, and came to the conclusion that the correct choice for me was to eschew formal training and just teach myself. Blew a tank in the pool and then did a few weenie dives to get used to it - by the second one I found it just as easy to deal with as diving wet; at this point I don't see a difference in task loading or protocol at all...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

That depends... most LDS drysuit courses will teach you to only use your buoyancy control device for a surface inflated life preserver... and to use your drysuit for a buoyancy control device.

Now that lengthens the learning curve considerable... if learning how to correctly use your drysuit is the goal.

Of course if you are content to ride the bubble and wear a correspondingly heavier weight belt whilst rototilling huge trenches in the bottom... then... yes... I guess it shortens the learning curve.

The dry suit class doesn't belong to the LDS it belongs to the agency. One reason the agency might teach it the way they do is because that's what some if not most of the dry suit manufacturers recommend in their instruction books. One thing most agencies do is teach divers to follow the manufacturers recommendations for using their products.

Why would the diver need more weight?

BTW I think SOP for the CDG (UK Cave Diving Group) is to use the dry suit only. They (I don't know about all) don't even have a wing or bc. Duncan Price on this board has posted pictures of his rig. I'll bet he doesn't rototill huge trenches in the bottom. I'll bet he doesn't rototill any trenches at all. BTW, I really mean that I will bet.

Aside from that...when we consider the ability of the average diver starting out with a dry suit...do you really mean to suggest that they should skip the class because they might have to demonstrate using the suit for buoyancy control for two dives and instead just grab a buddy and go practice emergency procedures. I guess maybe they could just skip that part too.

 

[MikeFerrara]

bwerb once bubbled...
all drysuit couses seem to teach using the suit for bouyancy...it just seems dumb.

Why don't the standards teach reality?

I think it is a good idea to have someone go over the new techniques with you and keep an eye out for explosive surfacing but it just doesn't make sense to me to take a course to learn how to do it wrong

One reason is because it's what the suit manufacturer recommends. Another reason is that it seems to work just fine for a correctly weighted recreational diver.

Like many others I was tought that way and it worked just fine untill I straped on a pair of steel tanks. BTW, trim was good, I didn't did any trenches and there were no uncontrolled ascents.

I do it a little differently now than I did back then but I do many things different.

 

[bwerb]

SubMariner once bubbled...


Why start a flame war over it?

~SubMariner~

Please forgive me...my intention was not to start a flame war at all...if it came off like that...please read my original post with intonation of someone with a very serious question.

On a secondary note...I learned something with my drysuit today and I have to seriously laugh at myself...I hope everyone can laugh along with me.

I have been trying to really get "comfortable" with suit squeeze and have been trying to determine what is enough air to offset the squeeze (and insulate) vs. a bit too much air which somehow seems to migrate to my feet. Today, I think I found the edge of suit squeeze comfort...ok...here's where it's too much...time to add some air. Prepare to laugh with me, I offer myself and my own mistake and research for the good of all "male" divers. If your suit is so tight that the "pair" of "distinctly male" objects which reside in the vacinity of your crotch strap "pop" from one side of your drysuit leg to the other with each kick in an excruciatingly painful way...you need to add air to your suit. I'm a complete idiot but...now I know how tight is too tight.

Brian

 

[GP]

Well, I had a chance to try my drysuit in the pool today for a couple hours along with a dive buddy of mine who recently got a new drysuit and was trying his out for the first time as well. One of the shop instructors gave us some instruction (not the official PADI drysuit course) none the less I think he went over things with us pretty good and covered a lot of ground. No doubt it is way different than wetsuit diving but I didn't find it to be that difficult even though I was just in a 10 ft. deep pool. I'm sure when you're down 100 feet it's a different story. I left the day feeling good about what I learned and think that over time I'll become a competent drysuit diver. I've got a good number of dives under my belt diving wet and had my buoyancy down well with that prior to going dry so that undoubtedly will ease the transition.
I plan to get in several dives in the lakes and quarries at shallower depths...maybe no more than 30 ft. just to get more experience with it before I venture into any deeper dives.
Back to the subject of the poll. I guess IMO I won't say taking the course is unnecessary. A newbie diver just out of basic open water training, not confident in their skills, suiting up dry and hitting open water would obviously be stupid. However, I at least got some valued and quality instruction today even though it wasn't the official full PADI drysuit course. I think the route I took was a viable option for me.
Now off to vote on the MechDiver Poll!

Happy diving

 

[Dryglove]

bwerb once bubbled...
If your suit is so tight that the "pair" of "distinctly male" objects which reside in the vacinity of your crotch strap "pop" from one side of your drysuit leg to the other with each kick in an excruciatingly painful way...you need to add air to your suit. I'm a complete idiot but...now I know how tight is too tight. Brian

OUCH!! Definitely to much squeeze......repeat after me...add air

 

[faye]

It seems alot of guys on this board would take a course to use a dive light or a fin strap!!! Everyones scared of messing up when that is the best part. Don't take the class, learn by mistakes, be uncomfortable, get out of the box.

plus two feet bobing out of the water is fun for the on lookers!

 

[bwerb]

faye once bubbled...
It seems alot of guys on this board would take a course to use a dive light or a fin strap!!! Everyones scared of messing up when that is the best part. Don't take the class, learn by mistakes, be uncomfortable, get out of the box.

plus two feet bobing out of the water is fun for the on lookers!

but...since you are relatively new here and have absolutely no information on your profile as to your own experience other than your age...I'd just like to say that "thinking out of the box" can be somewhat fatal in scuba diving...you're right, not everything needs a class, but an intelligent use of resources and "thinking it through" with a group of more experienced people is definitely the way to learn diving, not trial and error. In the case of drysuits...an explosive surfacing from 81 feet (where I was diving today) would have resulted in a serious embolism...no thanks.

I'll take your post as a lighthearted look at the topic and laugh at the image of someone poping up out of the water but I'd raise the caution that "education" whether through a class or trusted buddy or I'll say it...a board like this...is the key to keeping yourself alive and well to dive another day.

Brian

 

[JoelW]

Here is a sideways question. If an instructor gives instruction out of the guise of a class are they high on the lawsuit list if things go pear shaped (euphemism for fubar, euphemism for screwed up) for the unofficial instructee.

For example, if in this case the instructee ends up turning into an inverted polaris and gets damaged is the instructor liable for giving the instructions even though he/she was not contracted to teach a full class.

JoelW