drysuit material / style?

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Sure. I can share my experience and what I have learnt.

1. SHELL SUITS: Horrible overall. Even the most expensive ones. Yet they are the most "mainstream" because they do not offer any warmth and therefore create a market for various "thermal undergarments." Thermal undergarments is another nonsensical industry which needs to be bashed in a thread of its own but if you were to look at retail prices for drysuits, a good 30% of drysuit profit comes from "thermals." Purely from business p.o.v shells suits make the most business sense though they offer the worst diving experience.

2. NEOPRENE SUITS: Aaaaah! Now you have progressed to what makes less business sense to the brands to what is really good for YOU the diver. When I am diving in snow-conditions, I am using a 3mm neoprene suit along with walmart thermal fleece that I purchased for under 70 USD and I am warmer than the DUI diver who aborted the dive because he was wearing DUI and a DUI undergarment. I am feeling no cold and it literally feels like I am in the tropics. Furthermore people are asking me "How come you are sinking with so little lead?" These poor souls have been lead to believe by the marketing gods that Neoprene suits require more lead to sink. Theoretically this is true because if you try to sink a sheet of neoprene and a sheet of trilam then the sheet of neoprene will need a lot more lead to sink. When you build a suit from those materials then the neoprene suit will need less lead to sink because:

a) you are not wearing as much undergarment as you would wear under shell suits. No one ever talks about this when discussing how much lead is needed to sink with either suits.

b) you are not using as much air in your neoprene suit as you are using in your shell suit. When I was diving my shell suits, each time I felt cold (which was quite often) I would pump air in my suit. This would require me to wear more lead than neoprene suits.

It is due to these reasons that in warmer waters, 60 plus degrees my lead would be the exact same in shell as it would be with neoprene. As we approached colder waters and ice/snow conditions, neoprene would need slightly less lead to sink.

SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS: In order for neoprene to have those advantages, it is important that the suit is not crushed neoprene, and is customized to your body in the closest manner possible. This is when you will eliminate the air pocket that needs "management" and therefore requires drysuit training and certification. A well fitted neoprene suit should fit like a wetsuit and should not have enough air pocket anywhere to cause float feet or any of the other scenarios you are training for in your drysuit class. This is once again not as convenient for the industry because stock sizing is where money is made.

My recommendation. Try these shell suits and then rent a few. See if you can rent or borrow those over priced Santii etc. Then, rent a few neoprene ones. I would recommend Seasoft, Seac and Scubapro. Then call these manufacturers and ask them to make you a tighter fitted one.

 

[Ontwreckdiver]

I own a 4mm compressed neoprene drysuit with a neoprene neck seal and latex wrist seals. It is about 10 years old and has 100's of dives on it. I like the neoprene because you don't need as heavy of underwear as you do with a shell suit and the neoprene is tough as nails. I only have to wear micro fleece underwear from Marks Work Warehouse 90% of the time and 200 gram underwear when it's really cold. I like the neoprene neck seal because it is warmer than a latex one and it doesn't need to be as tight. I like the latex wrist seals because I have small wrists and neoprene ones leak like crazy.

 

[KD8NPB]

I use a front entry Viking X-treme.

It is a polyurethane suit. The main reason I chose it : It was inexpensive and no glue is used in its primary construction! All of the seams are RF welded. Translation? Seam leaks are a thing of the past.

As an added bonus, the suit was manufactured to meet EN 14225-2 requirements.

I did get custom vulcanized neoprene boots put on to match my foot size a little better... No extra charge, although the 3 month lead time out of Europe sucked.

 

[nimoh]

Sure. I can share my experience and what I have learnt.

1. SHELL SUITS: Horrible overall. Even the most expensive ones. Yet they are the most "mainstream" because they do not offer any warmth and therefore create a market for various "thermal undergarments." Thermal undergarments is another nonsensical industry which needs to be bashed in a thread of its own but if you were to look at retail prices for drysuits, a good 30% of drysuit profit comes from "thermals." Purely from business p.o.v shells suits make the most business sense though they offer the worst diving experience.

2. NEOPRENE SUITS: Aaaaah! Now you have progressed to what makes less business sense to the brands to what is really good for YOU the diver. When I am diving in snow-conditions, I am using a 3mm neoprene suit along with walmart thermal fleece that I purchased for under 70 USD and I am warmer than the DUI diver who aborted the dive because he was wearing DUI and a DUI undergarment. I am feeling no cold and it literally feels like I am in the tropics. Furthermore people are asking me "How come you are sinking with so little lead?" These poor souls have been lead to believe by the marketing gods that Neoprene suits require more lead to sink. Theoretically this is true because if you try to sink a sheet of neoprene and a sheet of trilam then the sheet of neoprene will need a lot more lead to sink. When you build a suit from those materials then the neoprene suit will need less lead to sink because:

a) you are not wearing as much undergarment as you would wear under shell suits. No one ever talks about this when discussing how much lead is needed to sink with either suits.

b) you are not using as much air in your neoprene suit as you are using in your shell suit. When I was diving my shell suits, each time I felt cold (which was quite often) I would pump air in my suit. This would require me to wear more lead than neoprene suits.

It is due to these reasons that in warmer waters, 60 plus degrees my lead would be the exact same in shell as it would be with neoprene. As we approached colder waters and ice/snow conditions, neoprene would need slightly less lead to sink.

SPECIAL CONSIDERATIONS: In order for neoprene to have those advantages, it is important that the suit is not crushed neoprene, and is customized to your body in the closest manner possible. This is when you will eliminate the air pocket that needs "management" and therefore requires drysuit training and certification. A well fitted neoprene suit should fit like a wetsuit and should not have enough air pocket anywhere to cause float feet or any of the other scenarios you are training for in your drysuit class. This is once again not as convenient for the industry because stock sizing is where money is made.

My recommendation. Try these shell suits and then rent a few. See if you can rent or borrow those over priced Santii etc. Then, rent a few neoprene ones. I would recommend Seasoft, Seac and Scubapro. Then call these manufacturers and ask them to make you a tighter fitted one.

Why are you not getting cold at depth when your 3mm neoprene suit compresses into the thickness of a shell suit?

I have nothing against neoprene suits, mostly because I have never used one. When I was looking for a drysuit, I was drawn to trilam mostly for the ability to select underwear based on the conditions with no inherent thermal protection in the suit. I am able to dive all day with surface air temperatures below 0F (although surface intervals are in a heated tent) and water temperatures of 35F, but then travel to Mexico and go cave diving in the same drysuit with surface air temperatures of 80F and water temperatures of 70F (although with different underwear, of course).

I would suggest that your friend in the DUI trilam suit is wearing the wrong underwear, doesn't tolerate cold well, or both.

I do agree with you in that I also think drysuit manufacturers make big margins on underwear, and there is nothing special about the polar fleece they offer as opposed to a place like Walmart. The underwear I use in Mexico is just thermal underwear from Gander Mountain that was about $20. The underwear I use for ice diving is DUI Action Wear 300, and yes, in hindsight I believe I overpaid for it

 

[CAPTAIN SINBAD]

Why are you not getting cold at depth when your 3mm neoprene suit compresses into the thickness of a shell suit?

Because of two reasons:

1. Neoprene compressed to 1mm would is still much warmer than trilam or shell.

2. The suit that I dive in presently is CR Neoprene. This is compression resistant but not all out flattened or pre compressed. It compresses at depth but not as much as a wetsuit so in order for it to compress to 1mm I would have to be a lot deeper. I have gone down to 130 feet in it and it is still warmer than my shell suit with the same undergarment. There is no comparison.

3mm neoprene + 300 gram K-mart polar tec is all I will need to dive in ice conditions. Without the undergarment it is like wearing a 3mm wetsuit so it will handle Bonaire and tropics etc no problem.

 

[nimoh]

Because of two reasons:

1. Neoprene compressed to 1mm would is still much warmer than trilam or shell.

2. The suit that I dive in presently is CR Neoprene. This is compression resistant but not all out flattened or pre compressed. It compresses at depth but not as much as a wetsuit so in order for it to compress to 1mm I would have to be a lot deeper. I have gone down to 130 feet in it and it is still warmer than my shell suit with the same undergarment. There is no comparison.

3mm neoprene + 300 gram K-mart polar tec is all I will need to dive in ice conditions. Without the undergarment it is like wearing a 3mm wetsuit so it will handle Bonaire and tropics etc no problem.

thanks, it seems that the CR Neoprene is what I was missing. I wasn't aware there was such a thing as compression resistant neoprene

 

[NAM001]

i WILL TRY TO STAY WITHIN THE SCOPE OF YOUR QUESTION. oops... I will say i use a dui shell tls 350 so i am biased to a point. some others wil have to add what i am missing.

you have crushed neopreme ... regular wet suit with the bubbles popped like bubblewrap. it its stiff but very rugged and puncture resistant...you fit the suit the suit does not fit you. probably least drag . little if any compression with depth.

laminated suits.... like putting on a loose trash bag. it is thin perhaps 1mm has no warmth cmpared to neopreme to it must use undergarments for insulation. being lose fitting you can put on a many pounds and still have a fitting suit. down side is that being lose you can have a bubble runing from one end to the other messing with bouyancy. my suit fits snug waist down so no major bubble issues there. get measured by a pro that knows how to measure for a trilam suit, the folks at demo days are pretty good at doing that. or if you are going to make the investment then go the the factory if it is near and get them to do it. a proper fit suit makes diving it a joy. leg seals. i would pass on them and get booties sewn to the legs from the factory. that leads to foot wear. some sort of shoe or boot is almost a must. walking on rocks to the water edge or the like needs a solid protection from the elements.

there are mixed suits that are combos of trilam and crushed neopreme. this is i believe trilam upper and crush lowers. great for wreck diving.

next diving type sort of dictates teh suit type. IE ow and cave would be trilam and wreck penitration would be crushed neporeme for the resistance to puncture aspects.

the next aspect is donning and doffing. the crushed suits are like a wet suit. slide in and zip up. this can be a tough job if you have mobility issues. the trilam has a telescoping waist. so a 6' suit is like 7-8' tall. makes it easy to get into it. Imagine putting on a wet suit with the neck velcroed in the back and getting your head through the neck hole.

One of the desired charactoristics of using the drysuit is the lack of bouyancy change as you go deeper. both types are superior to wet suits. wet suits loose perhaps 80-90% of thier lift at 100 ft. crushed suits vary probably from 10-20%. trilam has 0 change cause the material can not compress.

Thermal protection.... the trilam is worn over your thermal suit. warm water ,,,wear a thin undergarment and cold you put on a thicker set of undies. It is my opinion that because of the loose fitting of the trilam you have a greater range of undy thickness that you can put on and still get the DS on. The non trilam users will have to chime in in this aspect.



seals.... well lots of variartions there. i use zip seals. quick to change if cut. can fix on site if you have spares. spare set of seals for me is probably 250.00 for wrists and neck. have not needed a spare yet in close to 6 years. loose a few pounds and have a neck go from 19-15 and you could have problems so the zip option is cheap way out , both money and time.

gloves,, tough one for me. clearly you need protection from cold for the hands, since i dont dive in water cold enough to need gloves i cant comment. i can say that you can get gloves as part of the suit or seperate. if seperate then you have to attach them to the suit and that gets into the wrist mechanism for attaching a wrist seal or glove. some one else will ahve to comment on that.


Hope this helps.

what is the difference between the different drysuits as far as useage, fit , comfort, durability, neck and wrist seals and boots its pretty abovious i do t kkow much about drysuits beside they keep you dry but i woukd like to eventually after proper trainingto grt a drysuit so any help advise tips would be great

 

[kevsil]

thanks everyone for your input and advise but as far a choosing a drysuit i feel as if im not
much closer than before, mostly because of my own indecisiveness , i know i would like latex neck and wrist seals and and only front entry and maby sewn in neo boots with rock boots as far as material goes i feel as is a neo suit would be more durable and stand up the abuse i will inevitably put it throug (lobstering bottle hunting,wreck debris hunting and eventually wreck diving/ penetration)?....but on the other hand a looser fitting trilam suit also seems like a good option simply for the fact that my weight fluctuates, mostly up but somtimes down.....