At what water temp do you guys typically go with a dry suit? Is it a bad idea to use a 7mm in temps in the mid to upper 50's? Are all 7mm suits created equal? Are there 7mm wet suits out there that keep you warmer than the average?
Dry Suits
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It's all about comfort. Do what makes you happy!
I have friends who dive the tropics in drysuits, 70+ degree water and warmer. I also know people who dive 45F water in a 7mm (I think they're nuts). A lot of it depends on your body mass and cold tolerance.
For myself, I have no use for a 7mm -- if it's that cold, I'll skip the wetsuit and go directly to a drysuit. Typically anything less that 70F.
And no, not all wetsuits (of any thickness) are created equal. Fit is super important. I suggest renting or borrowing a few before buying one.
I have friends who dive the tropics in drysuits, 70+ degree water and warmer. I also know people who dive 45F water in a 7mm (I think they're nuts). A lot of it depends on your body mass and cold tolerance.
For myself, I have no use for a 7mm -- if it's that cold, I'll skip the wetsuit and go directly to a drysuit. Typically anything less that 70F.
And no, not all wetsuits (of any thickness) are created equal. Fit is super important. I suggest renting or borrowing a few before buying one.
I only own a dry suit, 3mm and a .5mm so I dive dry up to about 70-75 deg. I own three different garments that allow this flexibility.
No, depending on fit and your own thermostat you can comfortably dive a 7mm in the low 50's to high 40's. I had a few divers at Flaming Gorge a couple weeks ago that were quite comfortable in 7mm.
No. The only thing that is the same would be thickness. material type, stitching, where seams are located, factory knee pads or none, zipper, collar fit are just a few items that are different.
Yes and fit is the most important item. I'll give you an example. My wife was looking at new wetsuits. She tried Body Glove, Pinnacle, Henderson and Aqua Lung (AquaFlex) on.
She had dived in Body Glove and Henderson (Hyper Stretch?) before so she knew what she would get. The Pinnacle by reviews was supposedly warm but it was difficult for her to don. The Aqua Lung was by far the easiest to don and fit the best. Narrowed down to Henderson and Aqua Lung she went with the Aqua Lung Aqua Flex and has no remorse.
robint
Contributor
personally, I prefer a 7mm suit to a drysuit in most situations... more flexibility and less weight needed. I used a drysuit for 60 degree water for awhile (used 2 diffferent ones, in fact) and bought one which I recently sold. The extra wt needed was a deciding factor for me. In order to be warm under the suit, I needed to add 5-8 lbs more than with my wetsuit, plus kicking around in Blue Hole I found much more drag than in a wetsuit. So I never used a drysuit in the ocean, I just didn't feel confident in my own personal safety if there was alot of current. Plus I shoot underwater video, so I am already task loading. 
I go out to Calif ever summer/fall to dive, water ranging from about 56-70 degrees, I always use a 7mm wetsuit and hood. Gloves and hood help tremendously with keeping warm.
As far as differences in wetsuits.... yes there is a huge difference in sizing, thickness, and quality of neoprene. Some neoprene is really cheap and will not last very long. The reason for this is simple - all neoprene is made by the creation of little gas bubbles in the fabric. What gas is used to create these bubbles determines how long the neoprene will last, keep springing back after compression over and over, etc. Some neoprene will seem warm at surface but immediately compress underwater and give very little thermal protection. Some neoprene will compress slightly but still keep you warm. When you look at suits, get one that fits really well, but also feel the thickness and springy feeling of the fabric... some suits cost alot and you will probably find those are the ones with the better quality neoprene. Remember also, that even the best neoprene suit doesn't last forever, will eventually compress and not bounce back as easily. The thermal protection will be decreased. A good quality suit will last 200 dives maybe before you may want to consider replacement. A poor quality suit will last maybe 50 dives.
Just my 2 cents.
robin
I go out to Calif ever summer/fall to dive, water ranging from about 56-70 degrees, I always use a 7mm wetsuit and hood. Gloves and hood help tremendously with keeping warm.
As far as differences in wetsuits.... yes there is a huge difference in sizing, thickness, and quality of neoprene. Some neoprene is really cheap and will not last very long. The reason for this is simple - all neoprene is made by the creation of little gas bubbles in the fabric. What gas is used to create these bubbles determines how long the neoprene will last, keep springing back after compression over and over, etc. Some neoprene will seem warm at surface but immediately compress underwater and give very little thermal protection. Some neoprene will compress slightly but still keep you warm. When you look at suits, get one that fits really well, but also feel the thickness and springy feeling of the fabric... some suits cost alot and you will probably find those are the ones with the better quality neoprene. Remember also, that even the best neoprene suit doesn't last forever, will eventually compress and not bounce back as easily. The thermal protection will be decreased. A good quality suit will last 200 dives maybe before you may want to consider replacement. A poor quality suit will last maybe 50 dives.
Just my 2 cents.
robin
GrumpyOldGuy
Contributor
I have rented dry suits a few times. I think about purchasing a D/S from time to time:
a) Every time I dive below 50F
b) Every time I dive with an SI air temp 50F and no shelter.
c) Every time I dive 3 or more times in a day with water temps <55F
Other than that the wet suit is simpler, lower maintenance and cheaper. I would not buy a D/S for upper 50's unless I was planning on technical or the instruction road where I might be spending extended times in the water.
a) Every time I dive below 50F
b) Every time I dive with an SI air temp 50F and no shelter.
c) Every time I dive 3 or more times in a day with water temps <55F
Other than that the wet suit is simpler, lower maintenance and cheaper. I would not buy a D/S for upper 50's unless I was planning on technical or the instruction road where I might be spending extended times in the water.
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While dry suit work well, I have used wetsuits in water that is as cold as it can get (28o F) and with the right material (skin two sides Rubatex GN-231), the right design (hood attached, no zippers, farmer johns), and the right fit I was perfectly comfortable, even after I exited the water, because the wind drys skin two sides in a flash, so you don't freeze on the deck.
Most folks (with other design wetsuits) switch to a dry suit somewhere between 60 and 50 degrees F.
wrybosome
Contributor
!!
Seriously? I freeze my butt off below 45 F in a 7mm and I'm a pretty warm diver. Who makes a suit like that?
I've dove wetsuits down to 43 degrees. I was only cold on my face and hands. But, I was wearing 7mm full suit and a 7mm hooded vest over that. And more weight than you can put on a single weight belt! :shocked2:
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion has to do with neoprene compressing (significantly at depth). This has two adverse effects. First, you need to wear a lot of weight to sink the suit at the beginning of the dive, and when you get to depth, you are "overweighted" since the neoprene is compressed and has less "thickness" equating to less buoyancy. Secondly, this compression at depth, reduces the insulation capability of the suit, it may perform more like a 5mm or 3mm (depending on depth) than the 7mm is it as the surface.
Noticed that I said neoprene; whether used in wet or dry suits. I dove a neoprene dry suit for almost 2 years. I recently switched to a tri-laminated "shell" dry suit. When diving my doubles with the neoprene (7mm) dry suit, I needed 20 pounds of weight in addition to equipment to sink with undies. With my trilam suit, I need don't need any extra weight to sink with fluffier (warmer) undies. So, you won't always need more weight, but without doubles, you will need weight, when diving dry.
That said, I dive dry below 70, because I can. Another important feature about dry diving is when you get out of the water, which may be relatively warm, and it's snowing or blowing. You get really cccccold really fast if your wet, and it's horrible to have to put that frozen wet suit on for a succeeding dive.
One thing that hasn't been mentioned in this discussion has to do with neoprene compressing (significantly at depth). This has two adverse effects. First, you need to wear a lot of weight to sink the suit at the beginning of the dive, and when you get to depth, you are "overweighted" since the neoprene is compressed and has less "thickness" equating to less buoyancy. Secondly, this compression at depth, reduces the insulation capability of the suit, it may perform more like a 5mm or 3mm (depending on depth) than the 7mm is it as the surface.
Noticed that I said neoprene; whether used in wet or dry suits. I dove a neoprene dry suit for almost 2 years. I recently switched to a tri-laminated "shell" dry suit. When diving my doubles with the neoprene (7mm) dry suit, I needed 20 pounds of weight in addition to equipment to sink with undies. With my trilam suit, I need don't need any extra weight to sink with fluffier (warmer) undies. So, you won't always need more weight, but without doubles, you will need weight, when diving dry.
That said, I dive dry below 70, because I can. Another important feature about dry diving is when you get out of the water, which may be relatively warm, and it's snowing or blowing. You get really cccccold really fast if your wet, and it's horrible to have to put that frozen wet suit on for a succeeding dive.
i always dive dry. water is 45-60ish. warmer at some lakes during Aug, but i still dive dry. I have buddies who dive in bare arctic 7mm wetsuits, attached hoods, 14mm total neoprene on the core.
If its too cold for my 3mm with a vest and beanie, I dive dry. (Basically colder than 70 degrees.)
I've never tried a Rubatex GN-231 wetsuit as Thal recommends, but I would like to!
Instead, I have a Camaro 3mm which gets used when I teach in the pool and when enjoying tropical diving. I also have a Camaro 5mm and a Bare 7mm with accompanying 5mm hooded shorty vest, and all I ever do is lend them to friends while I dive dry!
My wife recently purchased a White's Fusion drysuit which is form fitting, hydro-dynamic and nearly squeeze resistant. Before she tried the Fusion she disliked cold or even temperate water diving. Recently, she accompanied me on a wreck dive in Lake Superior with water temps in the mid 40s and she had a great time! Couldn't wait to get back in the water. Unfortunately the weather didn't cooperate.
She wore wicking long undies and a 400g thinsulate undergarment and carried 22 lbs of lead distributed around her Zena BCD.
I've never tried a Rubatex GN-231 wetsuit as Thal recommends, but I would like to!
Instead, I have a Camaro 3mm which gets used when I teach in the pool and when enjoying tropical diving. I also have a Camaro 5mm and a Bare 7mm with accompanying 5mm hooded shorty vest, and all I ever do is lend them to friends while I dive dry!
My wife recently purchased a White's Fusion drysuit which is form fitting, hydro-dynamic and nearly squeeze resistant. Before she tried the Fusion she disliked cold or even temperate water diving. Recently, she accompanied me on a wreck dive in Lake Superior with water temps in the mid 40s and she had a great time! Couldn't wait to get back in the water. Unfortunately the weather didn't cooperate.
She wore wicking long undies and a 400g thinsulate undergarment and carried 22 lbs of lead distributed around her Zena BCD.
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