Dry suits-neo vs crush/ comp neo vs laminate vs fusion. How do they dive/feel?

[Saboteur]

I’ve done the dry suit course and looked at numerous articles since on differences in them: bouyancy, flexibility/stretchabilty, thermal garment requirements, suit weight, drying time, adapatability to different water temps etc. I had a neoprene suit in the early 80’s- then a few decades off diving and have only used a Fusion recently, which was an interesting sensation - snug like a wetsuit perhaps with a wrinkly lycra layer underneath. My question is for those who have or who haved dived all (or most) of them is how do you think they feel and perform if given the same dive scenario: 80-90 feet, AL 80, cold salt water (e.g. PNW in winter). What is your difference in weight needs given the different under layers needed? How bulky or constrictive do each feel? Drag and streamlining - laminates look very bulky, neo’s and fusions look sleek. Do they feel different in propulsion with finning? What about air bubble movement and management? If you have one of each, what is your go to suit and why? If you could keep only one- what would it be?

 

[Outbound]

I started out in a compressed neoprene suit, then got a AL Fusion, and then a DUI trilam suit. I'll give you my impressions and experiences with each.

Compressed neoprene: It was a Scubapro Everflex (I think that's what it was called). Dove really nicely, very close to how a wetsuit dives. Very little air bubble to manage, but that was also a factor of the fit. Only needed a thin base layer for warmth. As a result, I needed comparatively less weight than my other two drysuits - just 14 lbs. with an AL80 and 8 lbs. with a steel HP100. I got rid of the suit because I had issues with the roll-under neck seal fitting me properly (it worked better if I used an Apollo Bioseal under it) and the back-zip got to be a pain for donning and doffing.

AL Fusion: I had a mixed experience with that drysuit. I needed a lot more thermal protection than the compressed neoprene, and had to increase my weighting by about 6 lbs. for approximately the same amount of thermal comfort given the thicker undergarments I needed. The Fusion also gave me a lot of condensation issues. I suspect it's because the outer neoprene skin allows water to freely flow underneath it and directly against the Aircore bag. The thing took forever to dry and was heavy as all heck to hang up wet. I eventually stopped diving it because I was constantly chasing leaks in the damn thing. It was one that was made in Mexico. I probably could have pursued something with AL, but ultimately decided to just get a DUI.

DUI FLX Extreme: Weighting is the same as in my Fusion. No problems with condensation whatsoever unless I'm really, really sweating on the surface. Even then, it's a LOT less than I would get with the Fusion. Dives nicely, and I can't really tell the difference between it and my Fusion, but that might be because by this point I have a lot of drysuit diving experience. The only thing I don't like about the DUI is the neck seal. The ring is a bit narrower (or I just have a big head!), and I really dislike how long the cone-shaped seal is. I am not a big guy, so cutting it to the right diameter means I have a lot of extra silicone that gets bunched up when I don it. Takes a bit to get it all flat against my neck. I prefer bottle-shaped seals. But overall it's not that big a deal.

AL no longer makes or carries the Fusion, and production has gone back to Whites. I'm hoping that quality control will be better now. Still, I probably would go with a trilam over a Fusion because of the condensation issue for me.

 

[Tassie_Rohan]

I’ve dived compressed neo (northern diver) and trilam (scubaforce).

Trilam – better on the surface: easier to don by yourself, less restrictive feeling, less uncomfortable on hot days, with neo socks can turn suit inside out when washing/drying and very fast to dry.

Compressed Neo – better underwater: more streamlined, warmer and more warmth when there is a leak. More resistant to punctures/wear.

If I had only one it would be a trilam. Why?

• Drag: I’m a slow photographer and really don’t notice any difference in swimming resistance between neo and trilam suits: my camera, bc, tank and crappy trim all produce greater drag, and the trilam shrink wraps under pressure. An unnoticeable win for neo.
• Comfort on surface: For every 1 hour of diving there’s usually 1-3 hours setting up, chatting, waiting, walking to site (I shore dive a lot), sitting around and packing up. Trilams are more comfortable to wear, easy to zip and less restrictive. I also like having removable rock boots. Big win for trilam.
• Washing: I throw my trilam in the tub zipper open, and it dries in 5-10 minutes (I turn it inside out when doing so). My neo with fixed boots needs the neck and wrists sealed when washing, is heavy when wet, takes forever to dry, and its boots stink. Big win for trilam.
• Warmth: I require slightly less undergarments with a neo, but I’m happy with my Fourth Element Arctics and trilam across 10 to 20C waters (50-68F). Anything colder and I prefer the neoprene. If the water is warmish (20-24C/68-75F) I can dive my trilam with less on, but the neo is just too hot in the water and out. Win for the neo in very cold water. Win for the Trilam for diving warmer waters.
• Leaks: All suits leak at some point. Even with a trilam I don’t feel cold or notice most leaks until I’m getting out of the suit – thanks to warm when wet undergarments and 10-16C (50-60F) water. In water <10C leaks are cold regardless of if the suit is trilam or neo. Possible win to neo for redundant warmth in very cold water.
• Durability: I had 2 neo suits before getting a trilam, and I was shocked how easy it was to get leaks with the trilam: I quickly learnt to be gentler with the suit. Big win for neo if you or your environment is brutal on gear.
• Lead Weight – win for the trilam as its not inherently buoyant. I use similar undergarments for both.

I don’t notice an air bubble with either suit - I dive with a slight squeeze: I use my Buoyancy Control Device to control buoyancy, and I use my drysuit to keep me dry. I only add enough air to the suit to remove any discomfort.

Finally, in the not asked for category: warm feet and hands means you feel warm overall. I found the biggest improvement in feeling warm diving PNW or Tasmania in winter is by adding dry gloves (and warm socks).

Cheers
Rohan.

 

[BoltSnap]

Trilam – better on the surface: easier to don by yourself, less restrictive feeling, less uncomfortable on hot days, with neo socks can turn suit inside out when washing/drying and very fast to dry.

Compressed Neo – better underwater: more streamlined, warmer and more warmth when there is a leak. More resistant to punctures/wear.

Which one is easier to and more comfortable to swim with on the surface to get to the drop down point for you?

 

[lexvil]

All things being equal I would always choose neoprene over trilam but things aren’t equal so I dive trilam most of the time, front zip being the deciding factor along with my extreme cheapness.

 

[Boarderguy]

You're in the PNW where drysuits are the way. Custom made to measure will be better overall than ANY off the shelf regardless of type.

The next step is to move onto HP steel tanks and relegate that AL80 to a deco, stage, or O2 bottle.

 

[crofrog]

I dive a Santi Elite an avatar and a CF200.

All things being equal I prefer the way the CF200 feels in the water, a little bit of stretch gives it more flexibility specially when diving it a bit more squeezed, and it is negative in the water so it offsets some of the weight requirements.

But for everything else I prefer the Santi Elite. It's lighter out of the water and it drys way faster and they're easier to repair (although more likely to need it)

 

[Saboteur]

You're in the PNW where drysuits are the way. Custom made to measure will be better overall than ANY off the shelf regardless of type.

The next step is to move onto HP steel tanks and relegate that AL80 to a deco, stage, or O2 bottle.

Whoa, way to technical. I’m a warm water diver and I’m just testing the waters and going to ease into cold water diving. Mostly to keep diving between trips and of course gain more experience.

 

[Boarderguy]

Whoa, way to technical. I’m a warm water diver and I’m just testing the waters and going to ease into cold water diving. Mostly to keep diving between trips and of course gain more experience.

Are you north sound or south sound? Plenty of us around to provide a bit of insight and hands on experience. I'm any case for around here you'll want neo socks and rock boots. The oysters and barnacles during shore entry are not kind and is easier to replace a rock boot than one that's attached.

 

[JohnE]

I went from a laminate to a CF200 years ago. PNW diver. The laminate was a USIA bio flex type with back entry. Also around that time I switched from a jacket type BCD to a backplate wing. I think that impacted how I felt more streamlined and agile with the CF200. I wore out the USIA at around 200 dives I think. Creases caused wear on the ridges and that became too much. Also a bit of walking in these suits for topside work. The CF200 has worn a lot better. It is warmer. It is more comfortable as I recall. It takes more time to dry for sure. At the time I was doing a lot more diving than I do now so I think it made great sense. If I were to buy again with my more leisurely level of diving I’d go with a lighter suit for logistics and topside comfort. But I’m not buying again partly because the CF200 has worn so well.