Don't move the upline!

[MXGratefulDiver]

I never really did view this conversation in terms of "fault" ... especially not on Lynne's part.

It is a good illustration of how decisions that may seem perfectly "logical" at the time can lead to potential difficulties ... and why it's important to discuss things like this in a dive briefing.

Good communication can often make up for poor planning ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TSandM]

This is actually the first I'd heard of us being expected to pay for the anchor if it got caught.

The whole point of this was: If you are going to change anything underwater that people are depending on for navigation, make sure it's discussed before you get in the water and everybody knows what is going to be done and how. I guess the secondary lesson is, if you see somebody doing something you question, stop them and whip out the wet notes.

 

[ClayJar]

The whole point of this was: If you are going to change anything underwater that people are depending on for navigation, make sure it's discussed before you get in the water and everybody knows what is going to be done and how. I guess the secondary lesson is, if you see somebody doing something you question, stop them and whip out the wet notes.

The tertiary lesson was for all of us who have never had a dive in those conditions or with the plans which were apparently in play (or to be in play) for the dive. (I now know a whole lot more about all sorts of ways people dive up there, although it will likely be some time before I get to join in myself.)

The quaternary lesson is that some people will chop anyone from their potential list of allowable fellow divers at the drop of a hat, but that there are plenty of other more forgiving (and often, more *demanding*) divers with whom to dive (and from whom to learn).

The quinary lesson, however, is likely that I know far too many words and could likely continue with more lessons far past the point where *anybody* would want to do a surface interval with me. :biggrin:

There is *no* senary lesson!

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This is actually the first I'd heard of us being expected to pay for the anchor if it got caught.

Maybe that part only counts on tech dives ... :blinking:

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Missdirected]

NWGD, I completely relate to what you are saying about dealing with issues UW is sometimes way better than topside. Again, situations are always changing and one should be prepared for just that.

PG - to answer your question - it is more the attitude then anything. The "line" did not come from me... that comes from the OP.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

NWGD, I completely relate to what you are saying about dealing with issues UW is sometimes way better than topside. Again, situations are always changing and one should be prepared for just that.

PG - to answer your question - it is more the attitude then anything. The "line" did not come from me... that comes from the OP.

I think the question was Peter's ... and in any case, since it's unlikely that you and Lynne would ever have the option of diving together, it's purely a hypothetical situation anyway.

FWIW - I will always respect someone's decision not to dive with someone else ... there are people posting in this forum who have said they'd never dive with me, and I don't have a problem with that.

On the other hand, I'm puzzled by your comments. Perhaps it's because I have the benefit of knowing her personally, but if I had to pick a single word for Lynne's attitude, it would be "enthusiasm". If I had to pick a phrase, it would be "a need to learn" ... and a corollary would be a need to share what she's learned. Perhaps it rubs you and a couple others the wrong way ... but I know for a fact that her posts have benefitted a lot of divers on this and other forums.

I don't, personally, choose to associate with people who I perceive to have attitude issues ... and yet there are very few people I've ever met that I'm more happy to dive with than Lynne. Her attitude's infectious, and in ways that embody the positive aspects of why I spend so much time in a drysuit. In other words, I see it as a good thing.

If there's one thing I've learned spending so much time on Internet forums, it's that they're a poor indicator of how a lot of people turn out to be in real life.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Missdirected]

Bob, I am surprised you would think me so naive. Additionally, I never ever stated her posts have not benefited anyone (I really dislike when people add to what one has stated). On the contrary I would say a great many of her posts have been beneficial. Now that said, the attitude that comes through sometimes, when she has not had a lot of experience herself, coupled with how easily I feel she ditched those new divers, simply makes me uncomfortable. :ne_nau: Nothing more and nothing less.

Lastly, just like when Lynn and others say they wouldn't dive with someone of course it is most usually hypothetical. Come on already.

Note, I will be unsubscribing to this thread.

 

[dsteding]

Hopefully, this will be a wake-up call that there's more to diving than what you can learn on the Internet.

And, a wake up call for you. There is more that you can learn about people than what you infer from reading on the internet.

Lynne is one of the most humble, questioning, and rational divers I know. She's fallible, knows it, and that principle guides a large part of her diving. She knows her limits, and is constantly thinking and working to improve her diving.

Respectfully, your impressions of her are misplaced. That can be understandable given the imperfect communication over the internet, but I thought I'd point that out.

 

[TSandM]

Wow, Doug and Bob . . . I'm absolutely misty-eyed reading your defense of me. Thank both of you so much; you represent the two ends of the spectrum. Bob who met me when I was so incompetent that I shouldn't have been trying to dive anywhere outside of a pool, and Doug, to whom I tried to pay forward some of what I owed Bob. Thank you both!

I'm no expert at anything on diving, except, as somebody put it elsewhere, doing it wrong. I've worked through some things that I think can help other new divers, and it seems so, because even this morning I got a PM from a lurker, thanking me for my posts. My only strong opinions have to do with getting more and better training, and admittedly, they are skewed.

To a great extent, I try to post my own questions, and my own mistakes, because I figure I'm probably not very different from a lot of very average divers (and if you ask any of my instructors, that's the BEST they'll say about me) and we can all learn from the errors I've made, the work I've done, and the world-class instruction that I have either lucked into, or have had the resources to pay for.

 

[jeckyll]

Very interesting thread!

FWIW, people need to remember that "experience" should refer to the exact situation. In this situation none of the divers were experienced in moving hooks etc.

I wouldn't have been either, I've never done a dive like it and it would be completely new to me. I.E. I'd have zero experience (beyond one time making sure the anchor wasn't stuck under a rock because my group was the first down).

This is a good wakeup call for anyone who is experienced in their setting and then moves into a new situation. Congratulations, you're about to learn something new.

Having said that, IMO on a dive with new(er) divers you can't count on them making the upline. They should be prepared to do a free ascent or not do the dive.

As a complete aside: I had the chance to dive with Lynne and Doug once and to meet Peter, Bob and a few other of the Seattle 'crew'. I found them to be attentive and very capable buddies, though I believe at one point I told Lynne and Doug that their planning was getting to intricate for me, but that was more related to how often they dove together. On our dives we managed to solve some minor problem and communicate well when I had to call a dive due to a flooded suit in 43 degree water. Good dive buddies.

Of course, we each need to make our own decisions about whom we would and wouldn't dive with

Thanks for a thread that made me think.

Bjorn