Dolphins are flippin' idiots

[Hoyden]

The whole "dolphins won't jump gates" is not based on reality. There is always the possibility of gate jumping in marine mammal facilities. I'd like to read the paper he published in Nature. His arguments are based on brain structure not behavior - the popular press just picked up the behavior comment. His primary point seems to be that large brains in marine mammals developed to manage being "warm blooded" but I don't see this as an idea that will ever make much headway since there seem so many examples to refute his point.

Jackie

 

[CBulla]

This article was obviously written without knowlege of how dolphins use sonar or how they communicate.

 

[Hoyden]

This article was obviously written without knowlege of how dolphins use sonar or how they communicate.

I don't think that this is necessarily true - Manger is a neuroethologist who has specialized in dolphins so I am pretty sure that he is familiar with their behavior - at least in the wild if not in captivity (if he really made the attributed comment about barriers in captive marine mammal facilities). I am working on getting a copy of the original article.

Jackie

 

[CBulla]

It would definitely be interesting to know if thats what was 'really' meant. I've been sponging up info like crazy about dolphins and behavior and I have to admit, after watching the 20 years with dolphins video (one of the best I've watched) and talking with folks at Mote, etc., I believe the dolphins are making a choice not 'jump'.

So long and thanks for all the fish...so sad it had to come to this...

 

[H2Andy]

if you think dolphins are dumb, you should spend an afternoon with your average prison inmate

 

[Jamdiver]

http://www.news.com.au/dailytelegraph/story/0,22049,20195013-5007132,00.html

Dolphins are flippin' idiots

By Nicolette Burke
August 21, 2006 12:00

Article from: </IMG>


CONTROVERSIAL research claiming dolphins are marine dimwits rather than among the most intelligent of animals has split Australian scientists.
The scientific and marine conservation communities were divided yesterday in response to a South African academic's research showing dolphins are less intelligent than lab rats or goldfish.
The study, by the University of the Witwatersrand's Paul Manger, claims the large brains of marine mammals such as dolphins and whales are to help cope with being warm-blooded in cold water and not a sign of intelligence.

He argues the dolphin, widely regarded as one of the smartest mammals, does not display enough sophistication in its behaviour to show any more intelligence than a lab rat or goldfish.

"When you look at the structure of the dolphin brain you see it is not built for complex information processing," Professor Manger said.

"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish will eventually jump out.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools."

Why not? Because, Professor Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their minds.

Australia's Dolphin Research Institute conservation director Jeff Weir said people tended to get angry when new evidence came to light about dolphins' character.

"There's something special about them that has fascinated people for thousands of years," he said. "But there's little evidence they're as intelligent as everyone wanted to believe.

"It's not consistent with what people want to believe &#8211; and they get upset when it's not true."

Geneticist Dr Bill Sherwin, from the University of NSW, said groups of dolphins now being studied showed the most complex social behaviour outside the human realm.

"They do have pretty complicated behaviour. There's nothing complex in chimpanzees, orang-utans or gorillas," he said.

"I've worked with a number of different species and dolphins definitely look like they're thinking about you, and reacting to you and other things in their environment.

"This is compared to another species I worked with, the bandicoot, where you could stand there and they would repeatedly run into your legs.

"When you watch (dolphins) interacting in groups, it's like watching office politics. The male alliances constantly change &#8211; it must take some sort of brain capacity to do that sort of thing."

And to that I reply, quite tongue in cheek from theonion.com :14:

GAINESVILLE, FL&#8212;Although dolphins have long been celebrated for their high intelligence and for appearing to have a complex language, a team of researchers at the University of Florida reported Monday that these traits are markedly less evident on dry land.

According to study researchers, a group of 25 bottlenose dolphins removed from their holding tanks failed 11 exercises designed to test their basic cognitive abilities and reasoning skills.
"The dolphins were incapable of recognizing and repeating simple gestures," said study co-author Dr. Scott Lindell. "Their non-verbal communications were limited to a rapid constriction and expansion of the blowhole, various incomprehensible fin motions, and heavy tremors while they lay prone on the lab table."
After capturing the dolphins from the ocean, Lindell and his colleagues tagged them and placed them under the intense, high-wattage lights of a moisture-proof lab. The researchers then administered an extensive battery of tests designed to measure everything from the dolphins' self-awareness to their aptitude for writing and reading comprehension.
"Dolphins have a popular reputation for being excellent communicators," Lindell said. "But our study group offered only three types of response to every question we posed: a nonsensical, labored wheezing, an earsplitting barrage of unintelligible high-pitched shrieks, and in extreme cases, a shrill, distressed scream."



......

 

[CBulla]

Hmmm... sounds... right Jam!

 

[DavidPT40]

Why are intelligence tests for animals always based on puzzles and mazes? Even I'm not good at those.

How about creative intelligence? For example, in one study of chimpanzees, a chimp learned that he could hit other chimps with a stick and become the dominant male, even though he was smaller and weaker than the others.

Dolphins have been working hand in hand with humans in some South American country to catch fish near the shore.

 

[H2Andy]

How about creative intelligence? For example, in one study of chimpanzees, a chimp learned that he could hit other chimps with a stick and become the dominant male, even though he was smaller and weaker than the others.

hey, that sounds like my cousin Ed.

he learned how to wield a stick at age 4, and had my sister and i running for cover

(payback sucks)

 

[Zingtea]

Here's a differing opinion to the topic creator:

8/21/2006

Dolphins Dumb? Scientist is Dumber

Commentary by Paul Watson
Founder and President of Sea Shepherd Conservation Society

The article about dolphins being stupid has spread suspiciously around the global media this weekend. Seems like the Japanese public relations firms were working overtime on this one.

Apparently, some scientist out to make a name for himself from the University of Witwatersrand in South Africa has proclaimed that dolphins are dumb. In fact, this academic Yoda has even gone as far to say that lab rats and goldfish are smarter than dolphins.

Manger&#8217;s primary observable evidence is that dolphins don&#8217;t jump out of nets or over screens in their pools.

According to neuroethologist, Paul Manger, the large brain of a dolphin and whale is used more as an internal head warmer than for thinking. Yeah right!!!!!

I guess all the world&#8217;s great cetologists just have no idea what they are talking about. At least according to Manger, who claims to know a thing or two about brains, but apparently knows very little about dolphins.

The problem with this study is that it is a simplistic and there is a complete lack of inclusion of decades of observable behaviour in dolphins and whales that contradicts everything that Manger is saying.

I have spent decades observing, swimming with, and studying dolphins and whales, and to suggest that these animals are not intelligent is absurd. Manger should get out of his academic fantasy land and go to sea &#8211; he might learn something.

Anyone who knows anything about dolphins and whales knows that the conclusion of this "study" is wrong. Manger has a theory and it is a half-baked theory at that.

I would be interested in seeing where the research money for this latest dolphin defamation piece originated from? Japan maybe?

According to Manger, "We equate our big brain with intelligence. Over the years, we have looked at these kinds of things and said the dolphins must be intelligent," The real flaw in this logic is that it suggests all brains are built the same ... When you look at the structure of the dolphin brain you see it is not built for complex information processing," he told Reuters in an interview.

Dolphins are widely regarded as one of the smartest mammals and this common knowledge is not challenged by Manger, whose peer-reviewed research on the subject has been published in Biological Reviews of the Cambridge Philosophical Society, "but the reality is different."

Brains, he says, are made of neurons and glia. The latter create the environment for the neurons to work properly and producing heat is one of glia's functions.

"Dolphins have a super-abundance of glia and very few neurons ... The dolphin's brain is not made for information processing &#8212; it is designed to counter the thermal challenges of being a mammal in water," Manger said.

Manger said observed behavior supports his iconoclastic take on dolphins as dimwits.

If this is true then the only dolphins that Manger has been observing must have had lobotomies.

"You put an animal in a box, even a lab rat or gerbil, and the first thing it wants to do is climb out of it. If you don't put a lid on top of the bowl a goldfish it will eventually jump out to enlarge the environment it is living in," he said.

"But a dolphin will never do that. In the marine parks the dividers to keep the dolphins apart are only a foot or two above the water between the different pools," he said.

Why not? Because, Manger says, the thought would simply not cross their unsophisticated minds.

The reason that dolphins do not jump out of a pool is that there is nowhere to jump to. If there is a panel placed across the pool, the dolphin has no way of knowing what is above the water on the other side. Dolphins will not jump into an area unless they know what is on the other side. A fish will. Manger turns this around to suggest that fish are smarter than dolphins.

If a goldfish jumps out of its bowl it dies &#8211; that is NOT intelligent behaviour. A dolphin knows this.

As for jumping out of a tuna net, the dolphin has the same problem. The dolphin cannot see beyond the net. Would a human being jump over a wall not knowing what is on the other side? Certainly not an intelligent human being.

The other factor is that dolphins will not abandon their young and their pod by jumping out of the net. Dolphins have demonstrated extreme concern for the welfare of their own in times of danger.

Manger&#8217;s theory that big brains keep cetaceans warm is ridiculous. Walrus, manatees, leopard seals, stellar sea lions, and polar bears are big mammals that spend time in cold waters yet they have not developed such a large sophisticated brain.

One sign that dolphins and whales are smarter than people is that they are not busy destroying the planet they live on like one so called &#8220;intelligent&#8221; primate that we all know.