Doing It Prejudiced

[Quarrior]

Kim, I agree with you 100%, both as a smoker and a person that does not like "perfect" anybody. Thing to keep in mind is GUE is a business just like PADI. Therefore, they must have a following in order to stay profitable.

That said, I think DIR has some great concepts and firmly believe, although I have not me one here on the board, there must be some DIR divers that are not butt-heads.

I don't care for the whole way of life thing or the all or nothing stance. But, you can learn a lot from the diving concepts.

It's not worth be p*****d about a company that doesn't want to do business with you, especially since that company pushes a take it or leave it product.

Brian

Well it takes a lot to get me well and truly p****d off but I am now. I have been quite interested in reading about DIR concepts and practice - which I knew nothing about before joining this board. I was under the impression that the whole purpose of DIR was to make for better, safer divers. I'd heard about the supposed arrogance from the DIR community - but didn't really see much evidence to support it. Now I have just found out that I am precluded from taking any GUE course at all - why? - BECAUSE I"M A SMOKER! Well - that's prejudice pure and simple in my book - nothing to do with diving. And I thought that America was the country of freedom of choice and personal liberty - and GUE is supposed to be the pinnacle of American diving philosophy? Wow!
Suffice to say - almost all the tobacco that I have ever smoked came from America in the first place.
I'll just carry on learning to be a better diver in other ways - who knows - I might even give up smoking one day (I appreciate it's not that healthy - but I didn't see any ban on caffiene, junk food, or even alchohol). One thing I do know is that I will NEVER take any course from an organization with such a prejudiced attitude.
I wish that I could just add the entire DIR forum to my ignore list - because that's what GUE has already done to me.

 

[lee08]

I agree with the GUE/DIR Divers. Smoking messes up your entire respiratory system that effects the way you off-gas. Of course PADI/NAUI/SSI/SDI/ and all the other ones aren't going to tell you you can't smoke and dive because then you won't give them your money. If I was fat and out-of-shape and couldn't pass the DIR-F class would that make them prejudice against fat people?

 

[Quarrior]

This is awesome! I agree with the GUE/DIR Divers. Smoking messes up your entire respiratory system that effects the way you off-gas. Of course PADI/NAUI/SSI/SDI/ and all the other ones aren't going to tell you you can't smoke and dive because then you won't give them your money. If I was fat and out-of-shape and couldn't pass the DIR-F class would that make them prejudice against fat people?

Guess you need to do a little more reading. It's not a matter of smoking and not being able to pass the class. If you smoke, drink, or lead an "unhealthy" lifestyle, you are not even allowed in the class.

 

[lee08]

Ok, maybe I do need to do some more reading on the whole DIR concept. But the fact is that they have a very high set of standards. Why complain about it, either meet there standards or move on.

 

[RichLockyer]

How much does smoking really mean to you? When in doubt I always ask myself three little questions..
1. What if I live?
2. What if I die?
3. And how much did it cost me?

4 - If it causes me to be injured while diving, at what risk will I place my rescuer?

 

[RichLockyer]

If you smoke, drink, or lead an "unhealthy" lifestyle, you are not even allowed in the class.

You can drink, but not to excess. I've enjoyed a few beers with more than one GUE instructor. I've yet to witness one have more that 2 or 3 drinks.
I've also had dinner with GUE instructors who were hardcore vegan and drank only water.

 

[Quarrior]

Not complaining, just stating the facts as I see them. Bottom line is, GUE is a business just like any other business. They need to make a profit and do so by making divers that accept their diatribe verbatum believe they are some kind uberdiver.

Reality is, DIR has some awesome diving skills and gear configurations. To bad you have to accpet all their other crap in order to be accepted into a class to learn those things from a trained instructor.

Ok, maybe I do need to do some more reading on the whole DIR concept. But the fact is that they have a very high set of standards. Why complain about it, either meet there standards or move on.

 

[Kim]

Guess you need to do a little more reading. It's not a matter of smoking and not being able to pass the class. If you smoke, drink, or lead an "unhealthy" lifestyle, you are not even allowed in the class.

Which has been the point I have also been trying to get across If they tell me or let me realize during the class that my lifestyle isn't helping me I would find it more acceptable - and who knows it might even help me to change my habits. If I'm banned before we start then there is little chance of anything happening. This is a question of approach.
As it stands now GUE seems to have an almost religious conviction about their own correctness. Maybe some of it IS even correct - but how am i ever going to find out if I smoke? (although I wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of elitism even if I didn't smoke - and I don't need a new religion)
I think it's quite funny as well that I've seen lots of agency bashing on this board - just don't dare say anything about GUE. Some people really don't like it and obviously the truth cuts close sometimes - both ways

 

[Quarrior]

Kim,

You're right. I would not want to be a member of a group that prohibited people from joining just because of how they chose to lead their life.

That said, the idea of DIR itself is that everyone who dives using their policies and procedures is in peak physical condition, uses the same equipment configurations all the time and uses the same diving techniques. This way, there is never a question as to whether your buddy's gear is configured in a manner you are used to. Not a bad concept.

Problem, you and I are not the same person. What works for me does not always work for you and vice versa. So, you and I are left out in the cold because we are capable of independent thought. Aw gee, I'm broken hearted. How about you?

Like I said before, they have some good ideas for gear configurations and diving skills. I'm not basing this on a huge amount of diving experience, rather I am basing my views on common sense and logic. I'm an Engineer and tend to think in a cause and effect manner. That is why I use a BP/W, 7' hose, octo on a necklace, cannister HID light, no snorkel, 2 computers, SPG (no console), and frog kick. I violate the rules because I smoke, drink, eat what I want, have sex (lol), and have a compass on a retractor so I can actually get it far enough from my mask to be able to see it clearly, I also use O-rings to hold my clips to my SPG and second stage. Why an O-ring, simple. I am not going to trust a gloved hand to cut a high pressure hose loose with a knife when there is a 99.99% chance I cannot see what I am cutting. I'd rather break the o-ring and stuff the SPG in my harness. DIR prescribes using thread and cutting the snag loose by feel. I think not in my lifetime.

Brian

Which has been the point I have also been trying to get across If they tell me or let me realize during the class that my lifestyle isn't helping me I would find it more acceptable - and who knows it might even help me to change my habits. If I'm banned before we start then there is little chance of anything happening. This is a question of approach.
As it stands now GUE seems to have an almost religious conviction about their own correctness. Maybe some of it IS even correct - but how am i ever going to find out if I smoke? (although I wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of elitism even if I didn't smoke - and I don't need a new religion)
I think it's quite funny as well that I've seen lots of agency bashing on this board - just don't dare say anything about GUE. Some people really don't like it and obviously the truth cuts close sometimes - both ways

 

[MikeC]

Guess you need to do a little more reading. It's not a matter of smoking and not being able to pass the class. If you smoke, drink, or lead an "unhealthy" lifestyle, you are not even allowed in the class.

Would someone define "unhealthy"??? Do they tell me that if I exceed the speed limit I can't be "one of them"??? What about the fact that I own firearms??? Cook with open fire? Cook with booze?? Oh noo, I carry a pocket knife!!! The comparison to a religious group sounds correct to me.

I understand that GUE is an offshoot of the Florida cave dives, etc. And that they came up with refinements and revisions of "standard" dive practices to make their dives and teams safer and work more efficiently. GREAT! It is some of the other stuff that seems to be making some think twice about this group.