Doing It Prejudiced

[Kim]

4 - If it causes me to be injured while diving, at what risk will I place my rescuer?

I honestly don't believe that this is the issue here. I have health checks every year and have no problems so why shouldn't I be just as safe as the next diver. It's a very well known fact that all men over the age of 45 are at an increased risk of hearts attacks. A lot of these heart attacks occure with no warning or previous medical indication. Does that therefore mean that the responsible man stops diving at 45 to ensure they don't cause someone else a problem underwater. For that matter does GUE refuse to train men over the age of 45? I think not. However the increased risks of heart attacks are just as certain as the evidence against smoking - and we are not talking about the occasional exception either.
It seems to me that people can be extremely selective when they want - they see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear - whatever's there.

 

[jepuskar]

Kim, do this.....

Sign up for the course, when they ask if you smoke on the little sign up sheet, check NO.

In order for this to work:

1) Don't bring your pack of cigs to the dive site.
2) Remove the Salem logos from your wing.
3) Remove any ashtrays etc in your car.
4) Don't invite the instructor out for a drink and smoke.
4) Smoke when you get back to your hotel/home.

Congratulations, you are now a DIR-F graduate.

 

[alemaozinho]

Well it takes a lot to get me well and truly p****d off but I am now. I have been quite interested in reading about DIR concepts and practice - which I knew nothing about before joining this board. I was under the impression that the whole purpose of DIR was to make for better, safer divers. I'd heard about the supposed arrogance from the DIR community - but didn't really see much evidence to support it. Now I have just found out that I am precluded from taking any GUE course at all - why? - BECAUSE I"M A SMOKER! Well - that's prejudice pure and simple in my book - nothing to do with diving. And I thought that America was the country of freedom of choice and personal liberty - and GUE is supposed to be the pinnacle of American diving philosophy? Wow!
Suffice to say - almost all the tobacco that I have ever smoked came from America in the first place.
I'll just carry on learning to be a better diver in other ways - who knows - I might even give up smoking one day (I appreciate it's not that healthy - but I didn't see any ban on caffiene, junk food, or even alchohol). One thing I do know is that I will NEVER take any course from an organization with such a prejudiced attitude.
I wish that I could just add the entire DIR forum to my ignore list - because that's what GUE has already done to me.

do you know that GUE C-cards do expire.......unless you fulfilled your anually dive potential..........,dont you worry about such micro agencies,they,ll come and go and mostly merge with another micro agency for survival reasons.peace

 

[Strife]

You freely admit in your posts that smoking is bad for you. You wanted to take the DIR-F course.
You list no positive things about smoking. As far as I can tell, the only reason that you are smoking is because it is your life to do what you want.

My personal suggestion.

Quit smoking.

I am not sying that everyone has to quit smoking or anything. I am definitely NOT trying to tell anyone how to live. However, you listed several negative things about smoking and not one positive thing. Ask yourself, Why do you smoke? Is it really that enjoyable sucking harsh smoke down your throat. I mean, I tried smoking a couple cigarettes and I hated it. Personal opinion though. Any decision is yours, but you should think about it.

 

[murphdivers286]

Kim,

Everyone has standards. even you!!!

I work as a Law Enforcement Officer. I have applied to join SWAT. I had to do a shooting qualification and a 10 hour physical training (gut check). I did well in the physical part, but got so nervous in the shooting I screwed up. My previous scores through the years show that I have a consistant above average shooting ability, and I was only nervous this day. I don't think that my one day of bad shooting should exclude me from the SWAT team, but they have STANDARDS!!!!! I'm waiting on an answer from SWAT. If I don't make the team becuase of my shooting, then I will try again in the future when I'm able. I will not blame them becuase I screwed up. They have STANDARDS, and I must meet that STANDARD!!!!!

With out standards, anyone could be SWAT. I know you are going to say, what does SWAT have to do with GUE. NOTHING. My point is I choose to join SWAT, so I have to meet their STANDARDS. I feel if you want to be part of GUE, then meet their standards.

 

[minervamar]

As it stands now GUE seems to have an almost religious conviction about their own correctness. Maybe some of it IS even correct - but how am i ever going to find out if I smoke? (although I wouldn't want to be a part of that kind of elitism even if I didn't smoke - and I don't need a new religion)
I think it's quite funny as well that I've seen lots of agency bashing on this board - just don't dare say anything about GUE. Some people really don't like it and obviously the truth cuts close sometimes - both ways

KimLeece, which religions prohibit smoking?

It seems that the motivation for founders of GUE was to create an agency of higher standards than other agencies.

That seems to be the point of why it was created.

And you are upset because their standards exclude you.

Maybe the folks that created the standards simply don't want to be associated with drug addicts. It doesn't matter if the drug is legal.

Drug addicts don't care about their own health. People who don't care about their own health don't care about the health of others.

In Asian resort areas, it is common for smoking to be allowed on dive boats. I have never encountered a smoker that asked me if I mind if they smoke. They smoke on crowded boats with no regard for others.

I have experienced smokers light a cigarette while sitting in front of me on a small outboard boat with no room to move, on the way to the drop area.

One dive operator provided fresh fruit on the boat for the return trip. Once it was raining, and the only dry place was where the fruit was served. The smokers huddled there so they could keep their cigarettes dry. The falling ashes decorated the sliced mangos.

I advise you to visit a hospital and look at some of the millions of people that die from smoking related diseases per year. The number in USA alone is in the hundreds of thousands.

Maybe you will stop smoking. Maybe smoking will stop you.

Maybe you have been doing too much diving in DE NILE.

Good luck and good diving to you

Mike

 

[JeffG]

I honestly don't believe that this is the issue here. I have health checks every year and have no problems so why shouldn't I be just as safe as the next diver. It's a very well known fact that all men over the age of 45 are at an increased risk of hearts attacks. A lot of these heart attacks occure with no warning or previous medical indication. Does that therefore mean that the responsible man stops diving at 45 to ensure they don't cause someone else a problem underwater. For that matter does GUE refuse to train men over the age of 45? I think not. However the increased risks of heart attacks are just as certain as the evidence against smoking - and we are not talking about the occasional exception either.

You do not want to make the lifestyle choices that they see as being a benefit. Get over it and go to TDI....If you do not want to change...they don't want/need you...again...get over it.

It seems to me that people can be extremely selective when they want - they see what they want to see, and hear what they want to hear - whatever's there.

Exactly

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

which religions prohibit smoking?

Several do ... in my younger days I belonged to one such (Church of the Nazarene) for several years.

There are Biblical reasons for it ... some in here could probably even quote you the chapter and verse.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Quarrior]

which religions prohibit smoking?

Actually, I can't think of a religion that does condone it. Most ignore it, but technically it is a sin in all the religions I have ever been exposed to. That includes, Jewish, Catholic, Mormon, Budhist, Islam, various forms of Christianity, Hindu.

 

[cornfed]

Now I have just found out that I am precluded from taking any GUE course at all - why? - BECAUSE I"M A SMOKER! Well - that's prejudice pure and simple in my book - nothing to do with diving.

There is a very detailed article in the first issue of Quest (GUE's magazine) which addresses the issues of smoking and diving.

but I didn't see any ban on caffiene, junk food, or even alchohol). One thing I do know is that I will NEVER take any course from an organization with such a prejudiced attitude.

The following are from the student agreement that GUE makes all perspective students sign,

• I understand that the type of diving that I will be undertaking can be extremely strenuous and that it is imperative for me to maintain a high level of physical fitness. I understand and agree that my personal level of fitness is an essential aspect to my personal safety and the safety and that good fitness has a direct bearing on my ability to avoid causing injury or death to myself or others with whom I dive.
• I will refrain at all times, whether I am diving or not, from consuming or using illicit drugs, including but not limited to marijuana, cocaine, and other narcotics. I understand and agree that I have a responsibility not to use drugs and that such use, which is life threatening in connection with diving, can lead to my expulsion from GUE.
• I will refrain at all times, whether I am diving or not, from the excessive consumption of alcohol. I understand and agree that I have a responsibility not to use alcohol around any diving activity and that such use, which is life threatening in connection with diving, will lead to my expulsion from GUE.
• I will participate in a regular regime of physical exercise and remain in good physical condition at all times, absent physical illness, which precludes my adherence to this requirement. I understand that poor physical fitness or obesity is a condition that increases the likelihood of my death and the death of my diving partners for whom I may be responsible. I understand and agree that I have a responsibility to remain fit and not to become obese or grossly overweight and that such condition, which is life threatening, will lead to my expulsion from GUE.

I'm sorry if you feel discriminated against but I believe if you stop and look at the situation you will find that you have not been singled out. GUE promotes a healthy lifestyle into which smoking does not fit.