Doing It Prejudiced

[RichLockyer]

On another note... I have seen a GUE trained "DIR" diver smoking pot... I assume this is also against the "rules", or is it just cigarettes?

It is indeed, as is the use of any controlled substance except as required and authorized by a physician (and I ain't talking diet pills).

Just because a diver is GUE-trained does not mean that they are DIR.
If this diver holds a GUE cert level beyond DIR-F, then actual evidence of drug use would be grounds for the certification to be revoked. Likewise for excessive consumption of alcohol.

A DIR diver is as attentive to his body as he is to his diving protocols.

I am speaking as a former smoker (20 years, 2-4 packs a day) who doesn't care if someone smokes in his presence. I quit smoking the day I signed up for scuba classes. I had never heard of DIR, but knew that smoking and diving didn't mix... without anyone having to send me links.

 

[Northeastwrecks]

What a complete load of claptrap.

If... you... don't... like... the... requirement..., then... train... with... someone... else.... I'm reasonably certain that no one will particularly care.

Remarkably simple concept, eh...

No one would expect you to give up smoking to take a GUE course. If the documented and strong correlation between smoking and a myriad of health issues isn't sufficient, I'd hardly expect the chance to take DIR-F to change your mind.

 

[Grumpybear]

If... you... don't... like... the... requirement..., then... train... with... someone... else.... I'm reasonably certain that no one will particularly care.

Nuff said

 

[d33ps1x]

Nuff said

Then why did you say more?

Just kidding.

Kim that's like saying you take offense to me insisting you remove your shoes in my house.

Don't come in then if you don't like it.

 

[nalfein]

Hey Kim...

I'm not a smoker, and neither am I a DIR diver, so take this for it's questionable value as my lowly opinion.... That being said, if you believe so strongly in the DIR system that you want to take their course.... and they believe so strongly that smoking and diving don't mix, don't you think that perhaps you and GUE are fundamentally incompatible? Other than the fact that you're addicted to cigarettes, why don't you fall in line with their view on smoking? I assume you must have had to make some changes in your diving style and gear to comply with the GUE standards, should this be any different?

I hope this doesn't sound preachy..... it's honestly not my intent, ... good luck, and dive safe....

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

Most don't want to admit that smoking is truely an addiction that has gotten the best of them.

 

[mech]

If you want to smoke that's your business.
If I choose to dive with nonsmokers thats my business.
This topic title seems misleading am I reading it wrong.
Seriously though kimLeece,I gave up smoking my cigars near a year ago with the aid of nicoret gum and I'm a better man for it.
My denial kept me from seeing/registering what it was doing to my body.
I didn't even get it when my kids asked me if I was OK during my morning hacking/coughing sessions.
Could you quit for a month?
Good luck to ya KimLeece.
mech

 

[Kim]

This thread seems to have taken more a turn to smoking and diving - rather than smoking and GUE.
I do not think that smoking is good for any aspect of life - including diving. I don't need links to tell me that. However - that smoking is especially bad for diving is something I didn't particularly believe before I started this thread. It isn't something that any agency I know of - except GUE - takes issue with. Even doctors specialized in diving don't tell you - you can't dive. It seemed to me that if something was REALLY wrong with it - no-one would let you dive.
In a couple of PM's to me from someone who tried very hard to give me the kind of evidence that I was asking for - some part of it I am now prepared to admit has an inherent danger that I had not thought about before. The possibilty of a mucous block in the lungs trapping air is not something to be denied. I very much doubt if it happens a lot, or there would be a lot of smoking divers who weren't still diving - or even doing anything. However it's clear that it could happen - and then AGE would be fully on the cards.
However my original complaint was not about this - it was about GUE. Those who answered that it's their organization - so it's their rules - yes I suppose it is. On the other hand to go so far as to suggest it's the same as being asked to take off your shoes to go into someones house seems a little ridiculous - unless GUE is a PRIVATE organization, which I don't believe it is.
I agree with those who have said - 'If you don't like it - don't do it'. I don't, and I won't. There are other ways to get to where I want to be - so luckily it remains a world of personal choice - the kind I like. GUE's world isn't.

 

[RichLockyer]

unless GUE is a PRIVATE organization, which I don't believe it is.

It is, as are all dive training agencies. There are no government dive training agencies in the US except for Los Angeles County, and they have similar standards to GUE.
It is not discrimination to refuse to admit smokers. Discrimination is refusal based on race, religious, sexual, or even socioeconomic matters. Smoking is something that you choose to do, and you can choose to not do it.

Is it discrimination if I get arrested for driving after I choose to have a few beers?

The difference is that PADI will certify anyone who has a valid credit card. Most MD's will clear anything... I took a PADI resort course and severely hammered my ears with middle ear barotrauma. It took nearly a month for it to clear up, yet the SAME DAY I went to the MD to have it checked (including a hearing test), he gave me an "all clear" to dive on my physical.

GUE just has higher standards than others. The standards set by the RSTC are MINIMUM standards... not absolute requirements. PADI, and other agencies, have decided that the minimums are good enough. GUE does not accept that and has decided to exceed those standards.

If you've been a smoker longer than 10 years, I highly doubt that you would be able to pass GUE's swim test... 50ft under water on a breath hold and 300 yards in 15 minutes.

Failing to pass that would mean that you wouldn't qualify to even take DIR-F, whether you smoked or not.

 

[sharkbaitDAN]

There are no government dive training agencies in the US except for Los Angeles County, and they have similar standards to GUE.

What about NOAA? I don't remember anything about a smoking prohibition in the manual, but I don't have it with me so I can't check. :icosm11:

If you've been a smoker longer than 10 years, I highly doubt that you would be able to pass GUE's swim test... 50ft under water on a breath hold and 300 yards in 15 minutes.

I've met many instructors who have been smoking longer and would have no problem passing those tests. I know that is not the case for most people, but you can train yourself to hold your breath longer, even if you do smoke.

As to the original topic, The latest Alert Diver had an article about increased risk of severe DCS with smokers. For the record, I don't smoke, nor am I a DIR diver. I think I understand why it would exclude someone from being a totally DIR diver, but I am not sure I see the logic in excluding smokers from a course. Will they not benefit as well? Maybe it will give increased incentive to quit smoking.