Does anyone feel that culling invasive lionfish is a bad thing?

[scoobydrew]

I feel that the general consensus in the diving community is that the invasive lionfish in and around the Caribbean are a problem and that culling them is a good thing. I share this opinion and as well as having written articles on the issue as a whole, I regularly shoot lionfish and also teach lionfish culling programs.

I have however met a few people who consider this a bad practice and this is something I would like to know more about. My question to you is if you feel that divers culling lionfish is a bad thing, can you please offer me an insight as to why?

My intention is not to create an argument, I am just curious to hear an angle on this issue that I may not have previously considered.

Many thanks

 

[TheRealScubaSteve]

I don't disagree with the practice, but I was informed during my last trip to Grand Cayman in May that eels are becoming much more aggressive. Altering behavior with lionfish culling and subsequent feeding is one angle.

 

[Lorenzoid]

I can't think of potential downsides to culling lionfish per se. Now, if you want to bring into the discussion specific practices, such as feeding dead or dying lionfish to other species in a possibly misguided attempt to accustom them to lionfish as a food source, then I'm sure there are reasonable arguments against that practice. Also, quickie programs that certify people who have never hunted anything in their lives to hunt lionfish in marine parks might be objectionable. I have been on dive boats with yahoos who, judging from how they waved the spear around without much regard to their fellow divers, really should not have been allowed to carry it.

 

[drrich2]

I don't think it's culling them, but what's done with the culls that brings the drama. TheRealScubaSteve already mentioned reports of eels changing behavior in worrisome ways attributed to being fed lion fish. On a dive in Belize last May a guide carried a speared lion fish awhile, then 2 reef sharks showed up wanting it & made his life interesting for awhile (nobody got hurt). DAN's Alert Dive Online has 'A Shark Tale,' and here's an excerpt from that story:

Art had just speared two lionfish and was heading back to the boat when he attracted the attention of a couple of 3- to 5-foot-long Caribbean reef sharks. They were drawn by the fish blood and dying movements of the fish on the end of the spear. One shark swam up under Art as he made his way toward the boat. As the shark opened its mouth and headed toward the fish, he encountered Art's left hand instead. Art says it was sudden, unexpected and painful. He tucked his fist under his right armpit and continued to the boat, where he handed up his fish. Sue and Paula then helped him aboard, applied a pressure dressing and helped him remove his suit. There was a lot of blood. Art doesn't remember any of this.

I don't know how much spearfishing experience Art had, but I suspect the prospect of spearing lion fish tempts many people with no prior experience to take it up. I used to think about it till I saw the little drama in Belize, and read some of these other accounts.

Another problem is the risk of being stung. Quite a number of people who hunt them get nailed. Some react very badly.

It's not killing the lion fish that's at issue. It's whether the well-intentioned get stung, or sharks, morays and such start accosting divers in pursuit of them.

Richard.

 

[Wookie]

A bad thing? No. Worthwhile? No. We will never have an effect on the lionfish population. We just don't dive enough where they are.

 

[tomfcrist]

A bad thing? No. Worthwhile? No. We will never have an effect on the lionfish population. We just don't dive enough where they are.

I agree. Anyone that has visited deep wrecks and ledges from NC to Florida has seen the same thing. They are thriving in depths that maybe 1% of divers ever go.

 

[SeaHorse81]

I'll add another vote for unwanted effects on the behavior of other creatures in the area. Reef sharks, in my experience. Until lionfish hunting started, I'd never seen any aggression from reef sharks, ever. I came to discover they can be quite the bullies, actually, and can provoke genuine concern. A group of us actually had to kind of back out of site once because the reef sharks were so excited and aggressive as a result of the hunting by some in our party. In fact, one shark moved in and took the stringer of dead lionfish off of one of our divers, who wisely decided to drop it and get out.

Until I experienced this, I thought lionfish hunting was a fine idea. Now, not so much, especially since it seems unlikely to make a difference that matters in the end.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

 

[Chugwhump]

At the beginning of the invasion there were some well-meaning people and also some intentionally ignorant fools running around saying that we should be trying to capture the fish and relocate them instead of killing them on sight.
Mostly they were people who know nothing about the ocean, biology in particular, and well meaning but close minded German tourists who never heard of the Internet at a minimum, or simply don't know how to read (personal experience).
Given that these little bastages breed down to 300', and can inhabit the ocean down to 1000', I have only heard from the mentally ill, and intentionally stupid as of late on the Lionfish menace, that we should be trying to capture the lovely little darlings.

I will certainly say that the behavior of sharks and other apex predators off of South East Florida has changed due to the lionfish being taken by divers and such.

I started diving in 1977, and we really didn't see very many sharks until the Lions came along and we started whacking them about 6 years ago.
This happens when you might kill over 40 Lions on a single tank and carry them with you.
I certainly never had to punch on nurse shark on the head before this event, in order to get them away from me.

As far as to what divers, non divers, German tourists, Hindus, and other people that would prefer not to see animals killed,
I could care damn less.

UNLESS.....they are Marine Biologists or other science professionals.

And right now EVERY SINGLE LEGITIMATE BIOLOGIST that has studied Lionfish issue in the Atlantic Basin says cull, kill, collapse, eat, and then repeat.

Chug

Is both happy and sad to say that inside 100' the little tasty SOB's are getting VERY difficult to find from Jupiter to Key Weird.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2015 at 04:20 PM ----------

WHOA!!
That sucks out loud DD.
I have been zapped well over 25 times at this point, and I am now completely immune at this point.
Even if I take a serious hit, it stings for thirty seconds, it itches for three minutes, and then.....
it is gone.
I have never had anything like those effects manifest.

Chug
Also immune to poison ivy, poison oak, poison sumac, and Poisonwood,
but deathly allergic to F^€k!#@ chiggers.

---------- Post added November 1st, 2015 at 04:24 PM ----------

A bad thing? No. Worthwhile? No. We will never have an effect on the lionfish population. We just don't dive enough where they are.

Respectlfully Frank,
I completely disagree with the totality of your statement.
I certainly agree with a large portion of your statement.
Just look at the body count that we are getting in the line fish tournaments off of Broward and Palm Beach counties. The numbers "per team" are one third, and one half, of what they were just three and four years ago.
Here locally where I live we are giving our reefs, and their prey fish some breathing room.
Of course Frank,
you will not let me come on your boat and prove otherwise,
so you're just going to have to take my word for it.
*snicker*

Chug
Likes Key Weird for only a few days at a time.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Not my finger, but the day is coming I am sure. I'm scare of them and have been lucky, I guess.