Does a Long Hose set up require training?

[blackice]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
has somebody actually died while wearing them?

I don't think that is the point , it's better not to be the first.

Just think about if a if you passed past a fishing hook hanging in the water would it catchon the bungee cords or would it be the same if you had ablader with out them.

Also think about trying to inflate them manually, could be quite hard.

And each dip and bend increases drap and reduces your streamlining ... --- this lead to more effort to move and will increase the speed of your air consumption.

But yes they do look cool - but only in the shop not in the water.

Less is more.
=-)

 

[newdiverAZ]

thank you cast55 for an actual reply to a question that contained some reason, not just the standard "don't dive that because some whacko that I don't even know says not to dive it cause I get a cut if you buy this one. All of the reasons you post are valid, and point well taken, still don't see how it makes them the bwod, but still see the points. But ya gotta admit they look really kewl, lol



thanx

 

[newdiverAZ]

I'm sorry blackice, but that is the point. How do you call something the bungee wings of death if you don't know if the ever killed someone. By all means call them the bungee wings of snag, or the bungee wings of too hard to orally inflate. I personnaly wouldn't die if a fishing hook hooked me, I'd either cut my way out or my buddy better cut me out. If you panic and die because of a fishing hook snag, you need to be a lil more comfortable in the water.

 

[blackice]

tiswango once bubbled...
The 7ft hose is ackward at first, but after diving it you'll figure all this out. Here some tips:

1. Put a clip on it and clip it off when no in use or changing rigs.

The clip should be tied off with 3 wraps on cave line up on the hose, not the metal connections. You should be able to put the reg in your mouth while its still clipped off. Zip ties will slid up and down the hose, cave line will stick without damange.

2. Forget about break away O-rings. Just use cave line

3. Stuff the hose through the handle on the 27lb Halcyon wing when not diving.

Clip the reg off, grab the loop in the hose and run in through the handle and lay the hose down behind the wing. ** Make sure the loop does not get wrapped around the pressure guage. ** Slide in the back plate, put on the waist and crotch strap, and then you can unclip the long hose, pull it all the way out and secure it properly.

Hope that helps!

I'm not sure I agree with your first point about the way to secure the long hose to the boltsnap, I would think that cave line (wrapped 3 times ) would be almost impossable to tear away should you need to?

I find that a combination of cable tie and "O"ring works well. I have the "O" ring bent around the bold snap then feed a cable tie thru the two loops of the "O" ring and secure the cable tie to the first metal are on after the hose and before the regulator.

The bold snap doesn't move up and down the hose and it's ready to break off if needed.

I thin this sort of set up should be replaced on a regular basis. It should also be tested to find out how much effort is required to break the "O" ring.

I like the 3rd point you made. A great idea on how to protect your long hose from people walking all over it when on the dive boat.

Cheers,
=-)

 

[blackice]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
I'm sorry blackice, but that is the point. How do you call something the bungee wings of death if you don't know if the ever killed someone. By all means call them the bungee wings of snag, or the bungee wings of too hard to orally inflate. I personnaly wouldn't die if a fishing hook hooked me, I'd either cut my way out or my buddy better cut me out. If you panic and die because of a fishing hook snag, you need to be a lil more comfortable in the water.

Ok your right the name suggests that people die from using them, and as far as I know this is not the case (limited knowledge of such things)

I didn't call them "wings of death" but was just trying to explain my understanding of why someone may call them that.



=-)

 

[newdiverAZ]

that's my point, you could more accurately call a 747 the flying aluminum death trap, because failures there have taken alot of lives, but last time I checked there was stil a few people left that fly on them

 

[JohnStrr]

Someone posted, not to long ago, a link to dirQuest archives which had a story written by G. Irvine of WKPP dealing with a women who was wearing the BWOD. I'm not saying that that was the cause of death by any means, but it happened.

Maybe we'll get a repost, I'm too tired to search.

 

[roakey]

newdiverAZ once bubbled...
has somebody actually died while wearing them?

Yes

Roak

 

[Boogie711]

For NewDiverAZ's benefit...

You will also see reference to 'suicide clips.' These are clips that don't require direct input to open - like a carabiner, or spring loaded boat hook, or a bolt snap that can open just by pushing something through the opening.

Yes, people have indeed died whilst diving suicide clips. That is why they are called suicide clips. The most famous example is when John Ormsby got caught on some cable on a shipwreck and drowned because he was entangled. They suspect he was floating past some dangling cables and just became ensnared. Obviously the same logic applies to fishing nets, line, kelp, cave line, etc.

That's why you always want clips that require your direct manipulation to open, preferably in stainless steel, so they won't rust closed.

 

[roakey]

One of the problems of talking about this stuff is trying to make folks understand that we're merely describing one small piece of the "Big Picture." Bondage wings don't kill people outright. Suicide clips don't kill people outright. The wrong gas doesn't kill people outright.

The big picture is to eliminate as many small failures as you can in order to assure that they don't become CONTRIBUTING factors in an accident. But we wallow in the small details like asking "Just how does a suicide clip kill someone?" Answer: Alone it doesn't. Look at the big picture, but solve the small problems. Kinda like the old car racing saw: If you want to reduce your car's weight by 100 pounds, find 1600 places to save an ounce.

Deaths are NEVER caused by a single failure, they're caused by a succession of compounding failures. Take this purely hypothetical accident: Diver penetrates a wreck at 150' on air (wrong gas). Narked, he swims too close to a cable and the carabineer on his SPG gets caught (wrong clip). While trying to free himself (doesn't go very well because of his wrong choice of gas) a nearby piece of sharp metal puts a small hole in the bottom of his bungee wings, which power deflate (wrong choice of wings). Finally freeing himself he gets outside the wreck only to plummet to the sand because he has no ditchable weight and he's diving negative because of his choice of diving heavy LP steels with a thin wet suit (wrong choice of cylinder to dive with a wet suit).

His body is recovered the next day.

Did the air kill him? No. Did the suicide clip kill him? No. Did the bondage wing kill him? No. Did the big steels kill him? No. The combination, the big picture killed him. Change any ONE of those factors and he surfaces safe. Trimix and he doesn't run into the cable. Bolt snap and he doesn't get hung up on the cable. Normal wing and he can orient himself so it still will hold air. AL80s and he has ditchable wight and/or can swim himself up.

Imagine the safety margin if you eliminate ALL of the contributing factors?

And that one sentence above is what DIR is all about, maximizing the margin of safety via skills, mental preparation, teamwork, equipment choice and equipment configuration.

Roak