Doc Wong Getting Bent in Monterey!

[Willie]

It would be interesting to see the profiles if they are available.

Willie

 

[pilot fish]

Sounds like a gray area -what might be ok for you, might not be ok for him, me, her etc? It would seem that avoiding heavy exercise would be prudent after a dive? It could be that a hot shower, or a hot tub, and a moderate amount of exercise is also something to avoid?

As has been said in this thread, a dive profile, some history of whatever he drank, did not drink, etc, would be very useful.

There is some thought that exercise pre-dive lowers the risk of DCS, but there appears to be no doubt that vigorous exercise 2 to 4 hours after diving increases the risk of DCS. I just question that the amount of effort described here qualifies as the type of exertion that would trigger DCS by itself. Exercise is a relative term and depends on the degree of fitness, the aerobic (met) level and so on. When shore diving, we all do a fair amount of isometric lifting and carrying. When I trained, the instructors would carry a dozen tanks plus other equipment fifty yards or more after diving. Many factors are not known here that could be just as problematic: history of diving the day before, level of hydration, obesity, fitness level, recent alcohol consumption, the precise dive profile, how cold was the water/air, how much exertion was put forth underwater, gas used. We all know that NDS limits can be severely affected by a number of factors, known and unknown, beyond the depth and bottom time.
Assuming Doc to be a fit person, non-smoker, diving within limits with no dehydration/alcohol/illness issues, then the lifting might have done it. But if that's true, I think it's kind of scary. I'll need to hire a scuba valet to carry my equipment.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

....it would be nice to know what profiles within limits can still get us into trouble. Personally, I doubt that the small amount of isometric lifitng could have precipitated this. .

What a silly comment/question! One guy gets bent and if he tells us what his profile was then we will know which profile (that is within NDL) "can still get us in trouble"...


I agree that the exact profile would be interesting but I doubt it will teach us a whole lot more about decompression sickness. What the story does teach is that, once again, oxygen can almost be the "miracle drug".

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

What a silly comment/question! One guy gets bent and if he tells us what his profile was then we will know which profile (that is within NDL) "can still get us in trouble"...


I agree that the exact profile would be interesting but I doubt it will teach us a whole lot more about decompression sickness. What the story does teach is that, once again, oxygen can almost be the "miracle drug".

I don't know what's silly about it. There are no silly questions, only silly answers. We didn't need this story to tell us that oxygen is necessary for DCS. Duh. If we are to learn anything about an episode of DCS, short of the obvious need for oxygen, it would be nice to have more info.

Apparently, another take home message is that we shouldn't exercise after diving, which is also well established. What we have here is an ordinary dive and a nominal amount of heavy lifting which lead to what sounded like a potentially dangerous episode of DCS. Saying that the profile wouldn't tell us a whole lot more about this episode is odd. If profiles have no correlation with DCS, why bother with them at all? If someone doesn't want an accident dissected for learning purposes, why post it in a public forum?

A question can also be raised about the decision not to use a chamber initially, but please this is NOT a criticism (I don't know anything about how an episode like this should be managed), just a question for those who deal with DCS directly. Specifically, how symptomatic does one have to be to go into the chamber versus just using oxygen? When I was in the Caymans last year, one of the people in our conference had arm numbness after one wall dive and landed in a chamber immediately. How is this decision made...do the profiles enter here, or is a good response to oxygen sufficient to watch and wait?

 

[shakeybrainsurgeon]

Incidentally, check the active threads about PFO in people having DCS with normal dive profiles...

 

[DocWong]

No problem on askikng any questions. I posted this to share the experience.

Dive 1 was 80 feet for 20 minutes with a 10 minute ascent. All on 32% Nitrox. Water temp was 44 degrees F. No difficulty in the water. I did lift scooters out of the water then.

2 hour surface interval.

Dive 2: 75 feet for 47 minutes with about a 12 minute ascent. I like to think that I was conservative, doing deep stops and ascending slowly. 32% Nitrox. Water temperature 46 degrees F.

Total lifting post dive: Doubles, 80 cu ft stage bottle, 2 scooters that were 75 lbs and another at 50 lbs from the water up back on the boat and then off the boat once back on the street, climbing down a small ladder.

I'm pretty fit, 5'-7, 160 lbs and had a PFO check last year when my deco buddy got bent. Non smoker, no drugs, no medications and into health as a chiropractor and nutritionist. My goal is to still be able to do most of things I do now at 80 years old. Oh, yes, I'm 52 years old.

DCS and Deco is still a bit of a black art. NDLs are only guidelines. Now when I see other very talented divers being conservative, hanging around floating on top of the water taking their time, I now have a new respect for that.

This last year I was able to get in over 170 dives and many of them were deco dives, deep, trimix with no inicdences. Just goes to show, you may not be able to tell how close you are to the edge.

If anything, this incident will keep me on my toes as far as diving safety is concerned.

 

[Chuck Tribolet]

Dive 2: 75 feet for 47 minutes with about a 12 minute ascent. I like to think that I was conservative, doing deep stops and ascending slowly. 32% Nitrox. Water temperature 46 degrees F.

Was that 47 minutes and then a 12 minute ascent? or 47 minutes including a 12 minute
ascent? If the the former, that seems like a long time. When I dive that area, usually
on a 34 mix, my computer hits the yellow at about 35 minutes, and I go up.

What about hydration?

Did you dive the day before?

 

[LG Diver]

Honestly, I think it was the lunch at Turtle Bay. (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that you're OK Harry. It was nice meeting you and chatting at AWS a few days ago. Hope to see you around again soon.

Regards,
John

 

[DocWong]

Was that 47 minutes and then a 12 minute ascent? or 47 minutes including a 12 minute
ascent? If the the former, that seems like a long time. When I dive that area, usually
on a 34 mix, my computer hits the yellow at about 35 minutes, and I go up.

What about hydration?

Did you dive the day before?

It was a 47 minute bottom time, then we ascended taking 12 minutes to reach the surface.

Hydration was ok, but not up to what I usually do. I usually drink 2 quarts of water per day and the week before it was down to about 1 quart per day.

 

[DocWong]

Honestly, I think it was the lunch at Turtle Bay. (just kidding). I'm glad to hear that you're OK Harry. It was nice meeting you and chatting at AWS a few days ago. Hope to see you around again soon.

Regards,
John

That explains it!