Do You Service Your Own Regs?

[Genesis]

and I do buy kits.

Its not the easiest thing in the world to do, but I've been able to get them.

Trust me on this - there is no law that says that a shop can't sell them to you. The next time someone tells you there is, ask them for the cite to your state's law books - in chapter and verse (section, etc) form. Then go look it up.

I do not believe you can find it, because it does not exist. I KNOW it does not exist in Florida or Illinois.

 

[sexyscubadiver]

I agree, there is no law that states that you can't sell parts kits. But losing your dealership isn't really worth it. Do we sell the ODD parts kits to people we know and trust, or other dive shops not certified in that partucular brand? Maybe..... But on the other hand, do I think that everyone should overhaul their own regs? No. Why not support your LDS to not only give you a place to hang out, and get your tanks filled,(or did YOU want to spend $30,000 for a compressor) and keep the people employed that have dedicated their life to SCUBA diving by teaching, sharing, SERVICING, running charter boats and renting equipment? Where would your diving career be if you didn't have a LDS to walk into that first day you were curious?

 

[sexyscubadiver]

Sorry, I forgot to mention the hundreds of dollars and MONTHS, not hours of time, it has taken me to learn how to service YOUR regulators........

 

[Genesis]

$30,000 for a compressor eh?

Let's see, a new Rix SA-6 is about $6k, and that's new of course. You don't need that for your house - a SA-3 will do just fine for about 2/3rds that, as long as you don't want to fill beyond 3,000 psi - again, brand new. Knock 30% or more off for reconditioned.

You know, you'd make some sense if you didn't stretch the truth. Adding an extra zero onto the cost of things you quote doesn't quite meet the definition of "truth".

Or shall we define "service" as the dive shop around here that recently tried to tell me that I needed to have a PERSONAL compressor tested and certified for its air quality - by Florida law. That's a lie. I looked it up. If I SELL fills I have to have the output tested quarterly. But if I fill my OWN tanks, and even if I GIVE fills away, I don't need to do anything of the kind. Not that the aforementioned Rix has any oil in it to either combust or get sprayed into the tank... Next they'll tell me that I have to let them VIP my tanks if I fill them myself and there's a law governing VIPs (that would be yet another lie.)

As for "service", I'd like some. I'll even pay a reasonable price for it. But when it comes to maintaining my life support gear, I expect that if you want me to trust you with my life, that you should take full responsibility if you screw up - in writing, BEFORE you get the gear. If you do it wrong, you should not only refund my service charge, but also cover any expense I incur - including a ruined trip or rental costs if I need it. If I get injured or killed as a consequence of your "bad" service, you should be personally and corporately 100% on the hook, with no weaseling out with corporate organization tricks. If I die at 100' as a consequence, my next-of-kin should own your house, car, dive shop, boat, 401k and maybe your wife or husband if they want him or her.

Oh, you don't like that deal? Gee, why should I trust you then? You don't want to back your work with your livelihood, but you expect me to trust my life to your work? You're not going to take my place at the bottom of the ocean if you screw up, are you? I think there's a minor imbalance here between risk and reward here, don't you? Never mind the time pressures involved when you charge $60 for that overhaul and really can't spend more than an hour or so on it as a consequence.

Back to service - how come you think you should be able to sell a stock, off-the-rack item like a stock size drysuit, at a nearly 100% mark-up, but yet you maintain no stock and any returns due to YOUR improper measurements of ME is at MY expense and trouble (and, with some makes, with a restocking charge as well!) That's really cute - a 100% mark-up with zero cost of goods sold. Is that your definition of "service"? Its not mine! I'd be happy to pay that mark-up, but I want to try it on, and if it fits, walk out the door with a brand new one under my arm. Unreasonable? I don't think so. Yet that's what EVERY DUI dealer within 200 miles has told me - including those right near the cave systems (where drysuits are the norm rather than the exception.) Now tell me again why I shouldn't buy that suit from LeisurePro? THEY, unlike YOU, will take it back and give me a FULL refund if it doesn't fit properly - so long as it hasn't been wet and the seals have not been cut.

Running charter boats? I own my own boat. Two of them in fact. I dive when I want, where I want, with no silly "be back in 30 minutes" nonsense because, of course, you've got a schedule to keep - and money to make. I don't have either. Oh, I take friends of mine diving too. Not for money though - just for fun. So sorry that its not just me you don't get the charter fee from, but the other three or five people on board. We all think its just groovy, never mind that my boat has heat, A/C, a real galley, a real head, and a hot shower - yours doesn't. Next red herring please.

Months of time eh? That's funny, DEMA seems to have these seminars where they hand you a certification after a 2 hour "class" (on one line or model, yes, but still....) Howz 'dat happening?

Lose your dealership? How about you, as a LDS owner, show me that you care more about ME, as a customer, than you care about a MANUFACTURER? Exactly who is buttering your bread anyway? Do the MANUFACTURERS buy gear from you? No? Gee, why is your loyalty over THERE instead of over HERE?

Yeah, yeah, I know, you need them. Yep. You're right. But these policies only exist because you folks, in aggregate, permit it. And the simple fact of the matter is that if you slap me in the face as a customer I'm not likely to be coming back for seconds.

Most businesses only get to insult a customer who wants to spend several thousand dollars a year once.

There's this other little problem too....

You want me to trust you with my life, but you think its perfectly ok to lie to me about one thing or another.

What's wrong with THAT picture? :flame:

 

[sexyscubadiver]

Dearest Genesis,

First things first.
You are more than welcome to buy your own compressor,maintain it, and what not. Fill your tanks whenever you want, I absolutely agree it may be more convenient. It is a lot of years of $85 until you can recoup your costs. Even perhaps the social aspect of a Dive Centre is beyond you...

I agree that you do not have to have your own air tested, but why would you not?? Is it not important to you?? As far as VIP testing goes, it is my decision which tanks I fill. That ends that subject. By the way I do charge the same price for ALL Visual inspections.

I have never sent out a regulator that doen't work. Regardless of the circumstances, I guarantee my work for 12 months or 30 hours underwater, (The recommended time between services). As for your comment on taking all of my personal possessions, it does not dignify a response.

AS for your comments regarding Suit purchase, it sounds like a personal problem to me, but let me address it. All the suits I sell are custom made in THREE DAYS and fully guaranteed for FIT. Oh, and not for full mark up.

As for you owning your own boat, I am truly happy for you. However not all divers have the luxury of owning a boat, nevermind knowing how to run it, or time currents et al. Our boat Does have a HEAD, GALLEY, HEAT, A/C, Hot showers among others.

As far as the DEMA show overhaul thing, I agree with you. However, just because you have the certificate, in my mind, still gives you no right to overhaul regulators. Just because I have a stack of certificates taller than me gives me the right to offer a service, but only my own MORAL rights let me actually perform QUALITY service for people. And let me assure you that the first 50 regulators I overhauled were my own.

As far as the manufacturer/customer scenario, of course YOU, the customer, is my first priority, but how happy would you be if you walked into an empty shop because you had all of my lines taken away.....

Tough place to buy a mask strap eh? Oh, maybe you could make one out of some old innertube and string, oh wait, mail order!! You can be diving in 6-8 weeks!!

I appreciate your view on things, however I very must despise your PERSONAL attacks and assumtions of me. And I didn't say I own a Dive Centre.......

 

[John C. Ratliff]

I do my own, and have in the past worked with dive shops. However, I'm new to my area right now, and so am not affiliated with any dive shop, although I'm going to basically only one.

Some of my regulators, people have forgotten how to service. The Nemrod Snark III, USD two-hose models (Aquamaster, Mistral, DA), Sportsways Duel Air and AMF Voit Trieste are all models that no one will probably take on. I'm still diving the majority of them.

My most recent project was learning all about the UDS-1, which was very interesting, and which I've documented as US Divers has no documentation on this unit available at all.

I learned in the US Navy School for Underwater Swimmers in 1967, then worked on regulators in the US Air Force, and finally did so on my own when I graduated and got a job. The last time I turned my regulator over to someone else, they filled the interior with silicone, and blow it from the first stage to the second stage. Presumably, I got a little in my lungs. When I confronted the individual (owner of the LDS at the time--1980's), he said something to the effect of "So you're of the school that uses minimum silicone," and said that he learned this from a scuba manufacturer. I wrote the manufacturer too, as lipoid pneumonia is not nice to people, and even though silicone grease is "non-toxic," that's only if it is ingested, not inhaled.

SeaRat

 

[KYMEXDM]

In response to the question of the period of time it took the regulator to fail, the 30 dives were in a period of a month.

I understand that it is against the manufacturers rules (as opposed to illegal) to sell the kits to individuals. My question is based on the fact that so many people say they are servicing their own regs. If they are servicing them, surely they are buying annual kits somewhere.

I think one lesson learned is this: Under no circumstances should anyone buy TUSA gear that plans to live anywhere other than the States. I will never buy another piece of their equipment even after returning to live in the States because of their complete lack of customer service, but I digress.

Any other suggestions on obtaining service kits would be appreciated. I spent enough money on the reg the first time that neigher shipping it away for service or buying another one is an option. I thought I was paying for peace of mind and quality when I bought a top of the line reg.

 

[Genesis]

A lot of years of $85? What 'ya smoking up there in Canada today? My gas bill is rather higher than that, roughly $10/tank down here for Nitrox. Let's see, 300 dives just about pays for that Rix, doesn't it? Oh wait - its actually quite a bit sooner than that, since it isn't worth zero at the end of that time. (The O2 itself is only $0.50/tank for the Nitrox, and that assumes that I waste some 'cause I don't have a Haskel.) Ah. Ok.

Why would I not have my own air tested? Well, let's see, that Rix has no oil in it. Exactly where would hydrocarbons and CO come from? Outer space? That'd be quite the trick, 'ya know.

You don't think that my expectation that you put your livelihood on the line when you fix my reg is worthy of a response? Gee, why's that? You think that's terribly insulting? Well, so do I when you play the martyr on this and then refuse responsibility for your work. After all, it won't be you dying at 100' when you screw up, will it?

What "your mind" thinks about certs on overhauls is irrelavent. What is relavent is who's doing the work in the majority of the shops across the land, and how much training they have. The answer? Two hours on your regulator at DEMA. You know it, I know it, its a fact and no amount of blathering will change it. You claim much more training and experience? Cool. You're what is known in scientific studies as an "outlier", which makes what you offer into evidence interesting anecdotally - but of no probative value in the real world of what people are likely to encounter.

You claim to put the customer first, but you cowtow to the manufacturer's without complaint or organization. Your true allegiance is betrayed by this. Whether from lack of thought or intentional act matters only when its time for the recriminations - it makes no difference at all from a standpoint the impact on me as a customer. You COULD band together with the other dive shops and refuse to go along, and change the price-fixing and other forms of anti-competitive behavior. That you CHOOSE not to says everything I need to know, and when you intentionally misstate the economics to try to entice me to patronize you that just "seals the deal."

Can customers and LDSs get along under such a scenario? Perhaps for some who are sheep.

For the rest of us, we want to see a change in attitude - yours.

 

[jamiei]

I believe that sums it all up pretty well... it's funny that shop owners only really convince each other of how right they are and not us. I know there are great shop owners out there and I'm glad they're there... as for the ones i've had contact with... I don't believe a word they say. Those are also opinions that were formed in a completely unbiased manner. I give everyone I come in contact with every opportunity to prove themselves and unfortunately they have shown their true colors quite easily.

 

[Hallmac]

Stone here some more info.

The United States Civil courts have ruled that a manufacture, dive shop, or service tech can be held liable for damages cause by equipment failure, even if they did not service the equipment in question, just because they sold parts or equipment.
Money rules this country. This is why it is so hard to get parts and equipment to do it yourself. Most would rather lose one customer than a million bucks because a piece of life support equipment was improperly assembled some place they could not control.
Those of you who have work on the equipment probably have several stories of a nicked o-ring or seat, a small scratch that did not look like it would matter, or even a small piece salt, hair, rust, or debris that caused a failure of some type. I bet they can even tell you of at least one time when they were sure everything was assembled correctly and the dang thing failed to work correctly.