Do You Service Your Own Regs?

[John C. Ratliff]

Using the above information, a parachutist would not be able to rig his/her own parachute. Who would you rather trust with a parachute, yourself or the rigger (assuming you are competant)? Many, many parachutists pack their 'chutes themselves.

I've had some bad experiences with dive shops, and some very good experiences. Hopefully, we can continue to work together to ensure my regulators work well. I service what I can, then turn it over to them if I cannot handle the situation. It does take some maturity to realize not only your own capabilities, but also your own limitations (time, equipment, expertise).

SeaRat

 

[Hallmac]

I agree to a point.

I pack my own chute and I service my own equipment. Nobody but me to blame if something goes wrong. I think every diver should have the knowledge and ability to do so.
Then if you chose to have it serviced you know what to expect, and what to look for so you don't have a disaster during a dive. Knowledge is power and bad experiences can be somewhat limited if everone knew what to look for, what to expect, and how to double check it.

 

[MikeFerrara]

DiverBuoy once bubbled...


According to Mike Ferrara it's illegal for dive operations to sell you kits/parts. And the strategy differs from mfg to mfg as to whether you can ever qualify to recieve parts directly.

Stating the obvious: That leaves you with two possibilities:

1. Buy a new reg which is serviced in your area.
2. Pay $102.00 for annual shipping. (At that rate you can afford a different regulator.)

BTW, you said your reg began free-flow after 30 dives - over how long a period 1 year (current) or over several years?

I never said it's illegal but it is a violation of most dealer agreements. As a shop owner I would have a hard time getting parts for any reg that I am not a dealer for. In fact the regs that I own but don't sell are serviced by someone else because it's less trouble than looking for parts. I have the same trouble as everyone else. In fact a shop is less likely to sell me service parts than they are you because they are woried about me taking their service business.

 

[Genesis]

to see this one in an actual agreement and how its worded.

I have dealer agreements from a number of manufacturers. None of them have said anything about parts sales. Now there may be some other agreement I haven't seen yet, but the ones that I have seen have all dealt with retail price maintenance of various kinds more than anything else (beyond ordinary commercial terms stuff)

 

[MikeFerrara]

Why wouldn't I want to sell you parts. At this point we're pretty desperate to sell just about anything we can. But not at the risk of my only couple of dealerships. I don't know who'd dealer agreement you have but they don't sound anything like the ones I have. If you would like to see them just ask the manufacturer for them thats how I got them.

 

[jamiei]

how exactly will the manufacturer know if you are selling parts Mike? How are they to know whether you are selling the kits to me or you are using them in yourself to service regs? Just an ignorant question... I realize that if you start selling 40 kits a week they may think somethings up, but 15 extra a week wouldn't be that noticeable. There are a lot of shops that have people ship regs to them for service and end up doing a ton of regulator work every week. Who's to know? Sorry if I seemed harse in the other thread but this whole situation is frustrating and I do realize it's frustrating on your end also. I don't know you or your situation or how you run your business and didn't intend to make assumptions if it seemed that way, but you seem to have it in for guys like myself that want to do their own service work. We aren't trying to take money out of your pocket or hurt your business. I can spend more money on buying big ticket items if I can save myself the expense of having someone else service my equipment. If I had a shop that was supportive of my needs and would supply me with parts now and then, I would be the most loyal customer they had and I'd never say a word about their prices... as would most like me.

 

[plongere]

Following Hallmac's post, let's work to get the damned legal system in this country changed so that Mc Donalds can sell a cup of coffee without getting their pants sued off, or someone nicking themsleves with a knife and expecting themselves and their relatives to become rich for life just because the manufacturer didn't put a disclaimer (in seven or eight popular lanugages) that this device should not be used for picking your back teeth while riding in a pickup truck with no shocks on a rural road.

I don't own a dive shop. I am just a junior diver. However, if my livelyhood and future were based on each sale, I want to make sure I have done everthing in my power to make sure my butt is covered. I want to make sure my techs are trained, and that the proper parts are used in the proper models.

I am pretty friendly with my LDS. These guys are betting every nickel and dime they have ever earned on making their shop a success. Their homes are mortgaged, and their futures are mortgaged. This doesn't prevent some slimy short shirt tailed lawyer from convincing some poor smuck that they can be rich by putting this LDS and those corporate bad boy stiniking rich manufacturers into the poor house just to line their greedy pockets, because Joe diver put Scubapro parts into a Poseiden regulator. Hell, they looked the same, and by Godfrey they didn't say not to so it's their fault. Now make me and my lawyer rich! :bonk:

I am a firm believer that if you want to service your own equipment with little or no training, stand up, do your thing, and test 'er out in 300fsw. I don't give a rip, makes for better crabbing anyway when the rot sets in real good. But until we get some relief from our legal system and the idiotic awards they hand out, I don't blame the LDS and manufacturers from protecting their livelyhoods.! :bang:

Sorry to be so long winded but I guess you can tell this one hit my hot button. Let's work with our LDS and equipment providers to get what we want, but at the same time, let's let them keep their businesses. Without them, it's back to sucking air from garden hoses in the local pond again!

:boxing:

 

[The Chairman]

you can walk out of any shop that won't treat you in the way you want to be treated.

I have done this before and I will do it again if needed.

The old manager at the shop I frequent first refused to sell me AL parts...
"OK, I don't think I want to buy this Cobra after all."
"ubada ubada ubada... just because I won't sell you a parts kit? But I can't sell you a parts kit."
"Then you won't sell me the Cobra either."

I think it took him two days to find my number on one of their special order sheets and he called me back. If he sold me the kits I needed, would I consider buying the Cobra. But I already bought it from the discount store. Then he changed it completely to... whether I buy the Cobra or not, I could still buy the kits from him.

I think he learned something I know way too well.
* I don't have to buy anything in his shop. Nada. Zilch. Squat.
* I can get better prices on line. Easily. Cheap. Way cheap.
* I am looking for true customer service. Meet me halfway. Be my friend. Make me feel special.

I returned the Cobra that I bought from the discount store here in town, and bought one from him... and I have made about every major purchase that I can from him since. He got a customer. Loyal. Spends big bucks. Refers his students to him. He met my needs, now I will do my part to meet his. It's only right.

However, step in Mr. New Manager... and we are back to square one. And, this guy has a few things to learn before his business will get back to the level of the old manager. Hmnnnn, I wonder what they could be?

 

[Genesis]

Show 'em the back of your head.

It usually only needs to happen once. Some shops will get pissy. That's fine - they just told you that they have no concept of how a customer/supplier relationship works. You don't want to shop there anyway.

For "new manager" or "difficult employee" problems, the solution is simple - ask to talk to the owner. There always is someone in charge. If THEY don't understand then the cause is hopeless and you need to move on.

 

[MikeFerrara]

jamiei once bubbled...
how exactly will the manufacturer know if you are selling parts Mike? How are they to know whether you are selling the kits to me or you are using them in yourself to service regs? Just an ignorant question... I realize that if you start selling 40 kits a week they may think somethings up, but 15 extra a week wouldn't be that noticeable. There are a lot of shops that have people ship regs to them for service and end up doing a ton of regulator work every week. Who's to know? Sorry if I seemed harse in the other thread but this whole situation is frustrating and I do realize it's frustrating on your end also. I don't know you or your situation or how you run your business and didn't intend to make assumptions if it seemed that way, but you seem to have it in for guys like myself that want to do their own service work. We aren't trying to take money out of your pocket or hurt your business. I can spend more money on buying big ticket items if I can save myself the expense of having someone else service my equipment. If I had a shop that was supportive of my needs and would supply me with parts now and then, I would be the most loyal customer they had and I'd never say a word about their prices... as would most like me.

I don't have it in for those who want to do their own service. I do sometimes have it for someone (and some on these regulator threads have) claim all the LDS's use the wrong tools and endanger their live while over charging, pricefixing and all manor of other imoral or illegal things.

The manufacturers clearly state that they intend for only certified (by them) techs are to work on their regs. Why? The statement is designed to help get them out of a liability problem with someone who they haven't certified. Now, selling parts to non-certified techs is one of theose things that will cause my insurance to drop me. They may not know I did it til there is legal action but then I will be instantly and totally ruined having to fight a legal battle without insurance.

Genesis mentioned we should have a seperate corp to sell parts and work on regs we're not authorized to work on to combat the evil industry and do without the insurance. Of course on the other hand he states that we can't work on his reg unless we give up such protection. Anyway we have thought of such things. I haven't had lawyer yet come out and tell me that as a one-man corp I can't be he held liable for actions of the corp (me).

I would certainly sell part to someone who was "äuthorized" by the manufacturer. I might even be tempted to sell them to someone I knew well.

Now lets look at another angle. I spend alot of time in the water and see hundreds of divers every weekend at the busy midwest quarries. I hate to break it to you but I can count the number of divers who don't look like accidents waiting to happen on one hand. They won't die because the worked on their own reg they will die because they can't dive. After they die their surviving family is going to blame me. Every transaction that was ever between us will be a potential liability.

Also I have had very few even try to buy parts so it doesn't seem to be a big problem.