Do you hate BP/ wing arguments?

[jonnythan]

Still, you shouldn't take it personally if someone with a nice ratchet set tells you they think their tool is better for the job, and suggests that new mechanics should try one out before buying what you use... even if yours is easier to adjust.

That's gotta be one of the best ones yet

 

[Keysdrifter454]

It likewise amuses me when divers think that form drag is an imaginary phenomenon devised by marketing professionals, and believe that increasing your profile will have a negligable effect on your diving. That's great stuff.

Show us your verifiable numbers on drag coefficients of different gear sets.

Who mentioned "form" drag?

I take it you think boaters who scrape barnacles off their hulls to reduce surface drag have fallen victim to the same scam?

Got a lot of barnacles on your gear, do you?

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Originally Posted by MSilvia
Still, you shouldn't take it personally if someone with a nice ratchet set tells you they think their tool is better for the job, and suggests that new mechanics should try one out before buying what you use... even if yours is easier to adjust.

That's gotta be one of the best ones yet

Just as long as theirs is better than yours... :11:

 

[The Kraken]

Ya know, if divers were racing from point A to point B over a long distance then I think this drag argument would be germaine to diving. However, since most diving is done at such a slow speed and much of it is done while hardly moving at all I don't think it's really worth all of the vitriol . . .

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Ya know, if divers were racing from point A to point B over a long distance then I think this drag argument would be germaine to diving. However, since most diving is done at such a slow speed and much of it is done while hardly moving at all I don't think it's really worth all of the vitriol . . .

Don't be logical and practical and wizz in everyone's cornflakes.

As to the thread, we have to discuss -something-, and this beats spare air...

 

[MSilvia]

Show us your verifiable numbers on drag coefficients of different gear sets.

Got a lot of barnacles on your gear, do you?

No, I don't have numbers for different configurations, and no, I don't have barnacles on my gear. I don't see that either of those things is relevant to the discussion.

What I do see as being relevant, at least to your claims about drag, is that basic physics (which is not my strong point, and I apologise in advance for any novice errors) dictates that the greater the profile area a diver presents, the greater the force that will be needed to overcome it. Moreover, according to the "law of squares", doubling the area means quadrupling the resistance, and that's given a constant speed. If you want to go faster, that also will increase the resistance.

You said that it amused you that a diver with lots of gear would be concerned with something that seems as minor as the drag created by wing size. As I understand it, a diver with all that gear likely already has 4 or more times the drag of a diver without it (and probably 16 times the drag of a free diver), and at that point I'm sure you'll agree that any little savings in area is well worth considering.

If you can shave off a few square inches by using a smaller wing, it'll translate into a measurable difference in workload. That no one has bothered to actually measure the differences doesn't change that.

 

[MSilvia]

Ya know, if divers were racing from point A to point B over a long distance then I think this drag argument would be germaine to diving. However, since most diving is done at such a slow speed and much of it is done while hardly moving at all I don't think it's really worth all of the vitriol . . .

Sure, but if two divers are moving at the same slow speed, and one of them is working harder to do so, which one would you want to buddy with all other things being equal? It isn't about being able to move quickly, it's about being able to move efficiently and therefore have better gas consumption rates.

Working harder means breathing harder.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

If you can shave off a few square inches by using a smaller wing, it'll translate into a measurable difference in workload. That no one has bothered to actually measure the differences doesn't change that.

Gross speculation that the difference will be anything other than negligent, or that one bouyancy system has measurably less drag than another.

It's just a hollow "mine is better than yours" with squat for substantiation.

No one argues that "less drag is better", but to claim that your kit has less drag than all others is a

Preposterous

Marketing

Ploy.

 

[Keysdrifter454]

Sure, but if two divers are moving at the same slow speed, and one of them is working harder to do so, which one would you want to buddy with all other things being equal? It isn't about being able to move quickly, it's about being able to move efficiently and therefore have better gas consumption rates.

Working harder means breathing harder.

Absolutely.

When you can establish which diver is working harder, and that it's because of configuration.

Most people have to learn what horizontal is before nit picking.

 

[MSilvia]

Gross speculation that the difference will be anything other than negligent, or that one bouyancy system has measurable less drag than another.

It's not gross speculation, it's simple math.

It's just a hollow "mine is better than yours" with squat for substantiation.

I'm only saying that smaller wings have less drag than larger ones, not that "mine is better than yours". The advantage to backplates as far as this goes is that you can select the appropriate wing for the kind of diving you're doing. If you were to dive a single tank with a doubles wing, in other words picking the wrong wing for the dive, I'd say your streamlining would likely be a lot worse than with the average stab jacket. The advantage is in having the flexibility to optimize, not in that BPs are always superior no matter what.

No one argues that "less drag is better", but to claim that your kit has less drag than all others is a Preposterous Marketing Ploy.

If anyone is claiming that about any kit (with the possible exception of an old-school wingless harness), I disagree with them.

I don't think a backplate and wing is inherently more streamlined than any other BC, but I do think that they tend to be more streamlined than jackets, if only because there isn't any appreciable addition to drag area ventrally, and because the wing, if properly chosen, should fit with the cylinders in a low-profile way.

I think the advantages due to streamlining are shared with most other back-inflate systems. It's the other advantages that convinced me to retire my transpac II.