Do you hate BP/ wing arguments?

[caveseeker7]

I don't hate the bp/w vs. BCD arguement, but I am growing mighty tired of it.
Over and over and over.
Same with the Jet Fin vs. every other fin ... .
Same with the necklace mounted backup 2nd stage vs. chest mounted octopus ... .

You see a common thread between those?

What I really dislike are the vocal few that have to throw those arguments into as many threads as they possibly can.
No matter if someone asked for it or not. Like religious nutcases going from door to door trying to convert everyone in their path, they seem to move from thread to thread trying to convert the whole board to their choice of gear (and technique and refreshment and ... ).

"Should I get Bio Fins or Atomics?" "They both suck, get Jet Fins."

"Do you like the Athena or the Diva?" "They both suck, get a bp/w."

"Should I get an Olympus or a Nikon?" "They both suck unless clipped to the D-ring of a bp/w."

"I'm a really busty gal, what BC won't squeeze the twins?" "Get a bp/w, it'll act as a counterweight. And make sure you get the stiff Jet Fins so you don't tipp over between dives."

"After 10 years I just got back into the water. For my 50th I want treat myself to a drysuit. Any suggestions for a medium height double X width suit?" "You mean other than stay out of the water? Make sure the dump valve is on the right, not left, so it won't interfere with scootering." "I don't have a scooter." "At your age and shape you'll need one, not a chance you're fit enough to dive Jet Fins."

And finally, from the non-diving related section (you didn't think we were safe there?):
"Yeah, I'm so excited, after all these years we'll finally go on a christmas trip to the mountains again, snowboarding. !!!"
"Should have bought a bp, they make good snowboards."

Yeah, I really dislike those condescending sobs.

 

[StSomewhere]

I didn't even like the back inflate *BCs* (SeaQuest Balance). I do like my position on the surface with my Oceanic Probe. That's the only time I ever possibly feel anything like squeeze from my vest BC, and that's actually nothing compared to other BCs I've tried (including rental). Does a great job of inflating *out*.

Have I ever tried a BP/W? Be serious, where am I going to find something like that around here? After researching the training agencies and deciding on NAUI, I found that there isn't a NAUI trainer withing 200 miles of me. This situation is no different. I'm sure the great lakes, florida and seattle/vancouver contingents have opportunities to try this type of hardware, but it ain't readily available here.

The way I see it, if I'm lucky enough to get to 200 dives and decide at that point to go down the tech route, maybe I'll look into the tech gear (BP/W, doubles, stage bottles, etc.). But right now I see the whole DIR, BP/W, etc. configuration as complete overkill for where I'm at. I can always move to that gear later, if it ever actually becomes necessary.

FWIW, I've had a number of golfers tell me to get forged blades, since that's what better players play. Continuing the theme, I'll stick with my cavity back Callys, thankyouverymuch.

 

[Damselfish]

"Do you hate BP/ wing arguments?

This is not meant to be a flame, but a way for me and others to understand why there are many divers who are vehement in their opposition to BP/ wings.

Your title "Do you hate BP/ wing arguments?" is unrelated to the first sentence and many other thoughts in your post. Hating the argument is completely different than hating BP/W. I'm tired of the argument, but I could care less what anyone else dives. All I care is that they are a good diver, or at least trying to get there.

I don't see a lot of posts from people "vehement in their opposition to BP/ wings." Some from people that have tried them and have well considered reasons for preferring something else, and some from people that feel from what they have read it's not the right solution for them. Granted there is no substitute for trying something, but researching things by reading about them is a valid undertaking and a big purpose of this board.

It seems to me that there are many people that dislike being told that BCD's - jackets and back inflate devices are not good. Many people can't stand being told that there is a better way of buoyancy control than the system that they have come to know.

This is the core of the problem. Insisting that something that apparently works fine for many people is "not good." Thinking there is one best way for everyone. You're right, most people generally dislike this attitude on any topic.

Most of the people that are quick to state that you should use a BP/wing are doing so because they have experienced all different types of BCD's, wasted a lot of money, got frustrated and then finally decided to try a wing. They finally found the right system for diving and then try to inform others to keep them from making the same mistakes. Why would we wish a person to suffer in the same way as ourselves?

Not "the right system", but "the right system for themselves." This is key. Perhaps some people are "suffering" as you call it, but many certainly aren't or won't.

Personally I have dove and owned many different types of BCD's - starting with oral inflated horse collars nearly 30 years ago. I now have two rear inflate BCD's and one BP/ wing. I dive exclusively with a wing now. The two BCD's constitute over $1,000. that I have wasted. No one seems to want to buy my new Zeagle Ranger or Knighthawk so there they sit. Two holes in my bank account. I wish I had listened to those who advocated buying a BP/W in the first place! In other words my opinions as well as many of the other BP/W advocates come from experience of owning and being dissatisfied with the other types of BC devices. It's not one based on conjecture or lack of knowledge. Been there, bought it, tried it, hated it, prefer another way.

and that's just fine, people's personal experiences are useful to hear about.

I'm a recreational diver only and not sure that I want to progress much beyond this point. I don't have the system because I can grow with it or because it makes me look cool. I use it because I couldn't find a device that worked as well or better than my BP/W. I will say that my technique as a diver has vastly improved since going to a BP/W. I no longer fin with my hands. I can maintain my buoyancy within inches of where I want to be. I no longer silt out the bottom, yet I'm hovering only inches above it. My tank no longer wants to turtle me because my weight distribution has evened out. I have trim and can remain horizontal either face down or supine. Inversely, I have a very hard time doing these skills when I occasionally use my other two BCD's.

I don't have any of these problems and I don't dive BP/W. All this stuff is simple physics, not magic. I'm glad you found what worked for you.

So please, honestly and objectively tell me why you don't like a BP/W. I hope it's one based on direct knowledge and not hearsay.

I don't like or dislike. I can't, as I haven't tried. Given what I have read, my type of diving, and the fact that what I have meets my needs, I don't feel a need to. If had a convienient opportunity I probably would, just like anything, but I don't feel the need to seek it out. Is that so hard to understand? I'm just tired of the sort of posts so wonderfully described by caveseeker7.

 

[CALI68]

Yea, how about a thread with a fresh new topic like say...Jets vs. Splits?

 

[deadend]

:bravo:

I don't hate the bp/w vs. BCD arguement, but I am growing mighty tired of it.
Over and over and over.
Same with the Jet Fin vs. every other fin ... .
Same with the necklace mounted backup 2nd stage vs. chest mounted octopus ... .

You see a common thread between those?

What I really dislike are the vocal few that have to throw those arguments into as many threads as they possibly can.
No matter if someone asked for it or not. Like religious nutcases going from door to door trying to convert everyone in their path, they seem to move from thread to thread trying to convert the whole board to their choice of gear (and technique and refreshment and ... ).

"Should I get Bio Fins or Atomics?" "They both suck, get Jet Fins."

"Do you like the Athena or the Diva?" "They both suck, get a bp/w."

"Should I get an Olympus or a Nikon?" "They both suck unless clipped to the D-ring of a bp/w."

"I'm a really busty gal, what BC won't squeeze the twins?" "Get a bp/w, it'll act as a counterweight. And make sure you get the stiff Jet Fins so you don't tipp over between dives."

"After 10 years I just got back into the water. For my 50th I want treat myself to a drysuit. Any suggestions for a medium height double X width suit?" "You mean other than stay out of the water? Make sure the dump valve is on the right, not left, so it won't interfere with scootering." "I don't have a scooter." "At your age and shape you'll need one, not a chance you're fit enough to dive Jet Fins."

And finally, from the non-diving related section (you didn't think we were safe there?):
"Yeah, I'm so excited, after all these years we'll finally go on a christmas trip to the mountains again, snowboarding. !!!"
"Should have bought a bp, they make good snowboards."

Yeah, I really dislike those condescending sobs.

Caveseeker, thank you for saying what I am too lazy to type. I dive a bp/w and hate Jet Fins. If you wanna have a freakin' milk jug inside a Jansport for a bc then more power to you. I think that 50% of the content of this whole board is made up of why everyone should have Jet Fins with screen door springs on them or impending death is near. The other 45% is made up of bp/w arguments and peoples horror at some crap that makes no difference whatever it may be. The remaining 5% contains good info. I'm sure I'll get flamed now and probably banned but oh well. Doesn't matter anyway, I'll be dead soon when my non dir-lmnop-asap-pos-pia gear fails. Maybe a QR buckle on my bp will explode and kill me or something...or my wing will have 10lbs too much lift and kill me or something..... :bravo:

 

[matt_unique]

....I like and use the quick shoulder releases which are not on the BP. QUOTE]

The argument in question stems from people that don't know what they are talking about. The above item, as one example, is flat wrong. I use a harness with a QR. This is usually called the "Deluxe Harness" depending upon the manufacturer.

The original question was this:

"When I first entered college, I thought that since eventually I would get into more technical stuff, I might just as well get something like an oms or diverite. But now come to think of it, that seems to be a long time ahead and I have a feeling that those plate systems would be a little too complicated for the every-day kinda diving. So should I wait for a $500 tech set or should I just get something like a balance for the first few years of my college life?"

The simple answer to this question, from people who have used and own both systems, was that the bp/w is not too complicated for everyday kinda diving and they do not cost $500. The question was then asked if he should get a bc or bp/w based on his earlier mentioned assumptions of cost and ease of use. The recommendation, based on the desire to eventually get into tech, was to get a bp/w.

--Matt

 

[Charlie99]

Yea, how about a thread with a fresh new topic like say...Jets vs. Splits?

Come on, you can do better than that!

How about

"Would steel spring straps make my split fins DIR?"

"Is it DIR to dive a wing that is prone to seam leaks, pinholes and tears -- as long as it has the right logo on it?"

and my all time favorite:

"The best way to ascend from 200' on a spare air"

 

[StSomewhere]

The original question was this:

"When I first entered college, I thought that since eventually I would get into more technical stuff, I might just as well get something like an oms or diverite. But now come to think of it, that seems to be a long time ahead and I have a feeling that those plate systems would be a little too complicated for the every-day kinda diving. So should I wait for a $500 tech set or should I just get something like a balance for the first few years of my college life?"

Um, no, that was the original question to a completely different thread, that guy never even posted in this thread.

 

[CALI68]

and my all time favorite:

"The best way to ascend from 200' on a spare air"

LOL!!!! Full decompression...if you bring about 20 of 'em

How about:

"Is it ok to pee in a wetsuit?" or
"Is it ok to pee in a Drysuit?"

 

[The Kraken]

Cali wrote:

". . . How about:

"Is it ok to pee in a wetsuit?" or
"Is it ok to pee in a Drysuit?""

That all depends . . . is it you who is in the suit, or is it someone else.
If someone else, you may have a problem.