Do you dive without......

[Thalassamania]

And you can use it for a leg split if you ever bust your leg.

 

[SangP]

Well after diving hard for the last nine years and learning alot along the way, I have a question for everyone. I have meet 3 divers that i have dived with over the years that have been diving since double hoses. All of these people dive simple systems in Florida.......for example, plastic backplate with No B.C., 2" or 2.5" SPG and just a first and second stage, no safe second, no octo. I have asked them about this and most of them responded, we never needed a B.C. nor a second regulator. Hell they only got the SPG because they were tired of second guessing the J valve. So my question to you is..... do you know anyone like this? People who don't use B.C.s or have a safe second or octo or some form of second stage? Just have been wondering this for a while. Is it safe not to use a safe second or octo while diving open water?

Bcds were only commercially available in the 80s so lots of guys who have been diving before then don't use much safety gear.

Some naval divers and commercial divers also don't use much gear cus that's how they were taught.

Like having seat belts, I much rather dive with a bcd, spg, computers n octo 2nd stage.

SangP

 

[Stu S.]

Bcds were only commercially available in the 80s so lots of guys who have been diving before then don't use much safety gear.

BC's were an improvement on the old safety vest. The safety vest has a CO2 cartridge, and wasn't set up be routinely inflated underwater. The horescollar BC was a 1970's item. Most had to be lung-inflated. Most had no hose to the first stage. The real premium units contained a miniature tank.

My pals who had been diving a while told me not to buy one. The word was that it was not needed and not perfected, either.

 

[Nemrod]

And you can use it for a leg split if you ever bust your leg.

That is a thought, when I got into the docs today for my "busted" leg, maybe have my SeaHawk attached to the leg. Of course, I have been told, no more diving or anything else for six months or more , we will see how that goes. Yeah, have the SeaHawk attached, hmmmm.

N

 

[gypsyjim]

That is a thought, when I got into the docs today for my "busted" leg, maybe have my SeaHawk attached to the leg. Of course, I have been told, no more diving or anything else for six months or more , we will see how that goes. Yeah, have the SeaHawk attached, hmmmm.

N

Honest officer, I do have a doctor's prescription for it, and after all, it is not exactly "concealed".

Wait till you try to board the flight tho!

 

[Peacie]

If I may ask, as a newbie diver who's trying out different equipment configurations, how important is it to have a buoyancy device when using a plastic backpack? Tired of my bulky BCD, I got a BP/W to try out. I hopped over to a friend's house with a pool to see how much better it feels but it took a little bit of playing/adjusting to make it comfortable (on the surface it was cumbersome, but under the water it was much better). Then I tried a plastic backpack and was completely blown away by how much better that felt, and lighter too!

With a BCD I need ~10-12# of weight added, but didn't need to add any weight with the BP/W or backpack (sooo nice!!). I did, however, have that "Oh crap" moment once I realized that the backpack didn't float as I'd expected, allowing me to submerge without any effort at all. Without my fins I'd have been hard-pressed to force my way back to the surface fully equipped, so I'm curious about what to use to supplement the backpack. A horse collar? A lift bag? Water wings? (jk)

What did/do you vintage divers do? Did you ever perceive it to be a problem? Has my OW training set me up to be more afraid than necessary, relying on modern technology instead of myself?

 

[Crush]

If I may ask, as a newbie diver who's trying out different equipment configurations, how important is it to have a buoyancy device when using a plastic backpack? Tired of my bulky BCD, I got a BP/W to try out. I hopped over to a friend's house with a pool to see how much better it feels but it took a little bit of playing/adjusting to make it comfortable (on the surface it was cumbersome, but under the water it was much better). Then I tried a plastic backpack and was completely blown away by how much better that felt, and lighter too!

With a BCD I need ~10-12# of weight added, but didn't need to add any weight with the BP/W or backpack (sooo nice!!). I did, however, have that "Oh crap" moment once I realized that the backpack didn't float as I'd expected, allowing me to submerge without any effort at all. Without my fins I'd have been hard-pressed to force my way back to the surface fully equipped, so I'm curious about what to use to supplement the backpack. A horse collar? A lift bag? Water wings? (jk)

What did/do you vintage divers do? Did you ever perceive it to be a problem? Has my OW training set me up to be more afraid than necessary, relying on modern technology instead of myself?

Assuming that this is not a troll, you are carrying way too much weight or your lift bladder is far too small if it can't float you with a single tank. Have you accounted for the 6# of SS backplate?

 

[Peacie]

Remember that I am new to all this, so if my answers seem uneducated it's because I am. My weight estimation of the backplate is based on stepping on my home scale empty-handed, then with the BP/W. It registers a 10# difference, which is what I would normally wear on my weightbelt. No real issues with the bp setup, though, except that I need to spend more time fine-tuning it.

The concerns I have are in how much better the plastic backpack feels and wanting to spend time "playing" with that also. My fear is getting in water deeper than a pool and not having a back-up plan for surfacing other than propelling myself by kicking. Having an inflatable bladder lends itself to peace of mind, but I wonder if one is really necessary. So, to dumb it down even more, if I break my leg underwater and can't kick, how would I get to the surface with just a backpack setup?

 

[herman]

My guess is you are way overweighed, most divers are and this is esp. true of new divers. It’s a pity but most divers do not get as good an education on proper weighting as they should....but then again based on the amount of lead I see some instructors wearing there may be a good reason...
If you are properly weighted your decent should be a slow, controlled event. With a fully deflated BC and I do mean fully deflated and 500 psi in your tank, when you exhale, being STILL, you should start to slowly sink after a few seconds. Most divers want to instantly start dropping and sink like a rock followed by inflating their BC. Properly weighted you slowly sink and can stop your decent with a simple inhale. Granted if you are diving a very thick wetsuit things are a little more difficult and may require a little air in the BC.
A glaring problem I see in your post is this" My fear is getting in water deeper than a pool and not having a back-up plan for surfacing other than propelling myself by kicking. Having an inflatable bladder lends itself to peace of mind, but I wonder if one is really necessary. So, to dumb it down even more, if I break my leg underwater and can't kick, how would I get to the surface with just a backpack setup? "
First off, BCs should never be used to ascend, this is begging for an uncontrolled accent. If you are properly weighted, you can ascend on breath control alone unless you have a lot of wetsuit compression. Then it's a simple matter of dropping a little weight or frankly, when properly weighted it takes so little effort to move one leg is enough. And where is your buddy in all of this, he/she can help as well.

When teaching a diver vintage methods I first start by properly weighting them. Go to your pool, put on your gear (a 500 psi tank is ok but a 1/2 full tank is perfect), make sure every ounce of air is out of your BC, get in water almost over your head, take and hold a 1/2 breath, pick your feet up and relax. Just hang there and see what happens, making sure you are not moving your feet or hands. If you float fine, if you sink stand up and remove some weight. If you float then exhale completely, properly weighted you should start to SLOWLY sink after a few seconds, the key words being SLOWLY and IN A FEW SECONDS. If you do, then you are properly weighted, if not add or remove weights until you do.....and have some 1 lb weights on hand, 2s are way too big (I use 1/2 lbs ones).

Now that you are properly weighted, try swimming around using nothing but your breath to control your buoyancy. Breathing depth and cadence come into play here. A slow deep inhale, then a pause followed by a faster shallower exhale repeated several times will start you on a slow accent, the reverse, a long slow deep exhale, a short pause followed by a faster shallower inhale will start you on a controlled decent. He comes another part that instructors don't teach well, buoyancy changes take time and respond slowly, DO NOT expect instant responses from changes. A deep inhale will make you positive but not instantly, it takes a few seconds for things to happen. Slow down and let the buoyance force flow through you....(sorry watched too many Starwars movies yesterday ) learn to anticipate the buoyancy changes you will need a little later instead of wanting them instantly and now.
After you have mastered this, you should be diving with your BC fully deflated all the time and never needing to add or remove air throughout the dive. When you are comfortable doing so, remove the bladder (or get an old back plate with no bladder) and repeat the process in a pool or other water you are comfortable in.

While I spend a lot of my time diving with no BC, there are times I do have one. Mainly when I am off shore and there is the potential to have to remain on the surface for long periods of time waiting on the boat to come get me. In the quarry or simple shore dives I never wear one, there is just no need. The photo Jim posted a few pages back were shore dives on Bonaire, a perfect place for no BC diving.
.

 

[Peacie]

Thank you, Herman. I know working on my breathing and buoyancy are top priorities, and I got some practice in over the weekend. But what happens when you have no more weight to drop and still are negatively buoyant and 60' down? When I had the plastic backpack on there was no bladder- just an AL72 and my regs. Granted, the descent was gradual, but with no effort on my part. I know sans gear I can bob at the surface with my lungs fully inflated, but once I start exhaling I go down. And I know I'm not supposed to hold my breath. Is this really something that I'll be better able to control with continued practice? Or do I need to relegate myself to the "lead bottom" category and keep some sort of bladder as part of my setup?