Do they owe us and explaination?

[fairybasslet]

Doc ... Ellen ... please!

What happens on another board should not be brought over to this board.

If you two really need to discuss this stuff, would you mind doing so privately?

Again ... a simple request. These back-and-forth posts are only taking this thread further down a rathole ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

I'm done.

 

[cdiver2]

May we now redirect our posts to what may be a useful direction?

How can we, who are affected by dive injuries, learn from these happenings, much as the NTSB theoretically guides us to safer aircraft and procedures. Lord knows, the NTSB isn't perfect, but how can we get something like that?

We will have to overcome the veil that is thrown over many such incidents by insurance copmanies, courts, lawyers and parties involved.

We have such a thing in the ski industry, I know there has to be a way.

That's what I would like to resolve... or at least discuss a means to have some viable methods for reporting and collating redacted transcripts of investigations. That would be worthy of discussion.

You have to know, in some dark recess of DEMA or PADI, NAUI or ____, there is a number on a rolodex... somebody must know the details of pretty much so any incident. Forms must be filled out. X Files.

Even they resist releasing the facts for anyone think that SCUBA is the ultrahazardous activity that the media would have us believe... once they get ahold of the story!

Like I always say, the day someone on a shark dive with his VHS camera grinding away catches a shark chewing on a tourist... then the media will have a story.

Anybody remember what THE BIG story was on the morning of 9/11 attacks?

Besides Chandra Levy, it was all of the shark attacks. Remember?

Then the media flitted off elsewhere to gawk and sell advertisements.

Where is the truth needed? Where is it available? Who wants to pay for it?

Yes there should be some impartial investigation into diving accidents but at the moment there is not. Given cooperate America record this last year or so (ENRON etc) do you blame people for not having a 100% trust in them.
I have seen (in my short 24 years) working in heavy industry a number of smaller safety infractions that the Co new full well they were breaking, from this I do know OSHA doe's not work as it should.

 

[Doc]

Yes there should be some impartial investigation into diving accidents but at the moment there is not. Given cooperate America record this last year or so (ENRON etc) do you blame people for not having a 100% trust in them.
I have seen (in my short 24 years) working in heavy industry a number of smaller safety infractions that the Co new full well they were breaking, from this I do know OSHA doe's not work as it should.

Is there, in France, where I believe there is only one National Certifying Agency?

Worthy of discussion: If there was only 1 certifying agency, would this not be possible?

(Remember, we're discussing this in a vacuum, so let's put on our make believe hats)

 

[cornfed]

Worthy of discussion: If there was only 1 certifying agency, would this not be possible?

They would need to insist on certification renewal each year. That way if you didn't renew there could be a full scale investigation to determine in you had just quite diving or had died. The problem with this is that if you died on January 1st the investigation wouldn't be started until December 31st when you didn't renew. But that's too long to wait, isn't it?

 

[Doc]

They would need to insist on certification renewal each year. That way if you didn't renew there could be a full scale investigation to determine in you had just quite diving or had died. The problem with this is that if you died on January 1st the investigation wouldn't be started until December 31st when you didn't renew. But that's too long to wait, isn't it?

Largely depends on the water temperature and depth.

 

[cdiver2]

Is there, in France, where I believe there is only one National Certifying Agency?

Worthy of discussion: If there was only 1 certifying agency, would this not be possible?

(Remember, we're discussing this in a vacuum, so let's put on our make believe hats)

I don't know. In GB there used to be only one agency (BSAC) but I think there reports were only based on what they were told, no teeth to investigate and come to an unbiased decision. We would have to have an independent agency with teeth to make it work...world wide.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Is there, in France, where I believe there is only one National Certifying Agency?

Worthy of discussion: If there was only 1 certifying agency, would this not be possible?

(Remember, we're discussing this in a vacuum, so let's put on our make believe hats)

I don't think it's the certifying agencies that prevent it here ... I think it's the legal system. Anytime there's a potential for liability, the very first thing your lawyer will tell you is to not make any public statements. It's the old adage ... "anything you say can, and will, be used against you in a court of law".

Were our society not so litigious ... and our population a bit more willing to accept responsibility for their own actions ... it would be much easier for someone to actually provide real information about an accident without putting themselves in jeopardy for doing so.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[mrobinson]

Depends upon the wishes of the victims, as well as the directives that they agreed to with the arbiters of facts and settlements. This may or may not be an issue here, but the parties involved simply do not know that, yet. For now, the are well advised to say nothing. It is really that simple.

A public inquiry here is through the government and it's agencies. In the end each division puts forth their recommendations to improve the situation, if it were to happen again. Recommendations can mean potential lawsuits but at least the cause can be determined. Why don't the victims family want this?

 

[mrobinson]

I don't think it's the certifying agencies that prevent it here ... I think it's the legal system. Anytime there's a potential for liability, the very first thing your lawyer will tell you is to not make any public statements. It's the old adage ... "anything you say can, and will, be used against you in a court of law".

Were our society not so litigious ... and our population a bit more willing to accept responsibility for their own actions ... it would be much easier for someone to actually provide real information about an accident without putting themselves in jeopardy for doing so.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Politics and lawyers! Yuck, you guys are right, we'll never get positive movement.

 

[BigJetDriver]

Either this post straightens up, and you folks calm down, or it will be locked. Period.