Do solo dives count?

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If I have a split personality, do I get to count my solo dives twice?

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DaleC, don't forget that in the end, the only thing that really counts is what experience and training you have. I'd prefer an instructor that looks in some detail at what your experience is ..... things like looking at what sort of varying conditions you have dived in; what sort of different gear configurations have you used; have you been diving by following a DM or by doing your own dive planning and navigation. Those are important factors that don't show up in just a raw "dive count".
 
Then you should call or e-mail the appropriate agency(ies).

And maybe you should quit posting jibberish into a thread you know nothing about.

Sas,
I could ask directly but from the other thread there was some confusion about the issue and I thought it would be helpful to post the question here so any others wondering the same thing would also get the benefit of the answer :)

I feel like I'm on the crazy train here because I swear the header at the top of the page says:
Q and A for Scuba Certification Agencies. This is the place to ask that Dive Agency about their classes!
 
Sas,
I could ask directly but from the other thread there was some confusion about the issue and I thought it would be helpful to post the question here so any others wondering the same thing would also get the benefit of the answer :)

Oh I was hoping that you'd ask and post their answer back here :) I sent an email to PADI anyway, via their website to get an answer for you, if they write back I will post it here (if I get PADI-related spam thereafterwards I am holding you responsible :p) . I don't think PADI has a rep here (but I could be wrong?). Not sure about the other agencies. Hopefully some instructors will post what they do here as well.

I feel like I'm on the crazy train here because I swear the header at the top of the page says:
Q and A for Scuba Certification Agencies. This is the place to ask that Dive Agency about their classes!

Yes I think you are on the crazy train, expecting a thread to stay on topic :wink: :p
 
And maybe you should quit posting jibberish into a thread you know nothing about.
Well - alrighty then.

Q and A for Scuba Certification Agencies. This is the place to ask that Dive Agency about their classes!
If someone from PADI Corporate actually posts here, please let me know. But if you want a private conversation with an agency about its policies without interference from anyone else, e-mail and phone calls are better routes than a public discussion forum. They've never answered my questions here, but e-mail responses from them were surprisingly speedy.
 
Dale, PADI has not addressed this issue in their standards. This is something that, at this point anyway, will be decided by the indivual instructor that reviews your logbook. I suspect Arizona would be one of the very few who would not accept your solo dives. Most probably would not notice some of your dives were solo. Most would not even check your indivual dives, just the total number. Some may check depths and times to make sure they do qualify on those points PADI has addressed.
 
PADI's position on solo diving is available to any of their pro ranks in the PADI pros area. In the reading room section. They view solo diving as a form of TECHNICAL DIVING. And while not endorsiing it neither do they condem it in general. I have tried to copy and paste it here before but it will not allow me to. Therefore tonight I'll post it word for word when I get home. They adhere to the position that the buddy sytem is best but realize that solo diving does have it's place for those proeprly trained, equipped, and experienced. As an independent instructor(not PADI) I would have to evaluate one's solo dives on a case by case basis. Unless the dives were outrageous in nature or nothing more than a log entry saying did a solo to 40ft for 20 minutes on such and such a date I'd accept them. I want to know details of your dive and the skills you used or worked on. As a solo diver myself I can tell pretty easily if they know what they are doing or are blowing smoke. Be warned though that I expect much higher skill levels, knowledge levels, and higher buddy skills from those who dive solo. If you are diving alone you should be at a level reflecting your commitment to a level of skill and experience that is needed in the discipline as well as the mindset that many feel is required. Ie, if the crap hits the fan I can get myself out of it or am prepared to face and accept the consequences if I can't, including the distinct possibility that I may die.
 
As promised: Here is PADI's postion on solo diving. I was able to copy and paste it. I was not able to do that before with my old computer running windows ME. XP pro and Vista seem to allow me to do it.


Solo Diving: PADI Worldwide's Position
By:
Drew Richardson Senior Vice-President, Training, Education, Environment and Memberships, PADI Worldwide

Why PADI advocates the use of the buddy system

The buddy system in use today for scuba diving came from a decades old water safety concept found in swimming and lifeguard training. It was adopted because it applied to diving and because it made good safety sense. Early support of buddy diving safety procedures was referenced by Jacques Cousteau and the crew of the Calypso in the book "The Silent World". The goals of training divers include developing the skills to take responsibility for themselves and to be self-reliant. The buddy system provides divers in training with a safety redundancy to this skill base that diving alone simply cannot provide. PADI has, and will continue to, train divers using the buddy system based on its proven benefit to diving, divers and diving safety.

Practicality & Convenience

The buddy system has provided tangible contributions to millions of dives. Buddies provide an extra set of eyes and hands for each other. Providing assistance in putting on equipment, adjusting straps, assisting with weights and tanks, entering the water, helping to load and unload gear are but a few practical arguments that support the buddy system.

Safety:

The roots of the buddy system arise from diving and water safety. Early days of diver training heralded the buddy system as an important safety procedure because only through the buddy system could a diver reasonably expect to escape from entanglement, entrapment, out of air situations, disorientation, a head injury, chest pains, cramping and dozens more. Diver training and diving equipment have improved, yet these same values apply today. Like all safety-based systems, the buddy system is not perfect. However, the simple fact is that without a buddy in the water, the distressed diver has little or no chance of assistance.

The buddy system is the most basic form of scuba diving fail-safe. Buddies have helped each other in subtle and profound ways for decades. Often the smallest buddy intervention averts a string of error chains occurred and negative outcomes or tragedy. The safety record of scuba diving has improved dramatically over the past few decades, while the number of certified divers has increased. During this time, buddy system training techniques have been an integral component of this training. While there is no way to quantify the accidents that were prevented or did not happen because of one buddy looking after another, empirical outcomes support the relevancy and integrity of this training.

Enjoyment:

Diving is a social activity, so the buddy system is more than a safety rule. Diving with someone you know and are comfortable with adds to the fun. Most divers actually enjoy companionship in and out of the water. It is fun to share exciting adventures and experiences with others. Fundamentally, the buddy system is about dive companionship, something that won't appeal to misanthropic personality types.

Can Solo Diving be done responsibly?

Yes, but let's be clear about what responsible solo diving is and what it is not. It requires experienced scuba divers willing to make the necessary commitment to train and equip themselves to accept the added risks involved. That is to say, a person with the required attitude and aptitude to pursue responsible solo diving. This is true in other adventure sport activities such as solo rock climbing.

It is important to clarify what responsible solo scuba diving is. PADI views it as a form of technical diving and not for everybody. To responsibly engage in solo scuba diving, a diver must first be highly experienced, have a hundred or so buddy accompanied scuba dives, be absolutely self-reliant and apply the specialized procedures and equipment needed to engage in the activity. This includes, but is not limited to redundant air sources, specialized equipment configurations, specific dive planning, and management of solo diving problems and emergencies. When solo diving is performed within this description, we see a place for it. Responsible solo diving is not diving alone without the mental discipline, attitude or equipment. That said, no amount of redundant equipment can effectively back up a diver's brain better than another individual.

What concerns does PADI have with regard to solo diving

When a problem occurs on a solo dive, or when the diver is alone in the water, there is little or no chance of assistance for the distressed diver. This decreases the chances of a diver surviving the problem or having a favorable outcome. Diving alone reduces the chance of survival regardless of the problem. Since 1989, there were at least 538 fatalities where it was clear divers were either intentionally diving solo, or became separated from a buddy and were de facto alone.

PADI is concerned by certain proponents of solo diving within the dive industry, including a major diving publication, who attempt to promote solo diving by bashing both PADI and the buddy system with headlines touting " Why the Buddy System is dangerous". This is both irresponsible and reckless. To suggest that the buddy system fosters a false sense of security and increases the likelihood of panic is outrageous and contrary to the empirical evidence. To claim that divers shouldn't use the buddy system for fear of being sued by a diving companion is ridiculous. The unfortunate reality in the litigious U.S. is that folks have sued one another for nearly anything. It is no surprise that there have been a handful of cases where one buddy has brought suit against another. Outside of the U.S., this argument doesn't hold up and smacks of the fear mongering to sell magazines. Besides, how long will it be before a solo death results in a suit against a magazine or other forum endorsing solo diving, a practice that is contrary to community practice. There is nothing to prevent such lawsuits from arising.

PADI's position is clear; solo diving proponents should advocate responsible solo diving on its own unique merits, requisite training, and equipment needs and not through sensationalized attempts to disparage a proven safety system, that has served the majority of recreational scuba divers well.
 
ND, I'm not interested in opinion - I looking for Agency(ies) policy. That is why I posted in this forum.

You pretty much got the PADI position. Two PADI instructors, one would count the dives, one would not. This tells me that PADI has not specifically said one way or the other and it is up to the individual instructor to interperate the requirements.

EDIT- it appears Walter beat me to the punch

Arizona, I am curious if you would count dives logged without a buddy name or sig, but that did not read SOLO anywhere in them? Im not picking a fight, just curious if you read the standards to require verified dive logs, or just would not count SOLO as PADI frowns on the practice.

EDIT EDIT-
Thanks Jim, looks like I won't have to turn in my PADI decoder ring after all :)
 
I appreciate Jim's follow up. I will pay more attention to the reading room on the Pro site. Suggestions are given, but nothing absolute is given with regard to counting logged dives. I still would consider the Safe Diver Agreement when looking at solo dives. I feel my view is still the best to follow. In addition it seems Dale the original poster is not meeting the following:

To responsibly engage in solo scuba diving, a diver must first be highly experienced, have a hundred or so buddy accompanied scuba dives, be absolutely self-reliant and apply the specialized procedures and equipment needed to engage in the activity. This includes, but is not limited to redundant air sources, specialized equipment configurations, specific dive planning, and management of solo diving problems and emergencies (from JimLaps post).

Seaducer:

I would count dives logged without a buddy name or signature, but solo stands out as something to be cautious about, for the beginning diver in particular. As per the above the dives mentioned in Dales case do not appear to meet this criterion. I would seek clarification in both instances by talking to diver. As other instructors have stated skill evaluation and experience can be substantiated by other means than just a logbook. In reality, how many DM candidates are going to have the majority of their dives coming from solo dive type entries?

Arizona
 
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