Do people ever scuba with a free diving wetsuit?

[ligersandtions]

My husband scuba dives in his freediving wetsuit (well, he did till he got a drysuit at least). The suit is open cell on the inside (so he has to use a conditioner/water mixture to lube it up so he can slide right in) but has some protective layer on the outside - I think it's a nylon layer, but then it also has cordura or kevlar or something on the knees and chest.

It's a farmer john type suit and I think the legs are 5mm and the jacket part is 7mm. He said it's much warmer than the 7mm scuba diving wetsuit he used to have. He said it's because of the open cell neoprene on the inside.

FWIW, we are hard on our wetsuits/drysuits. He's taken that suit over rocky, surgey, surfy, urchin-filled entries and exits....it's held up better than my Scubapro wetsuit (I can't say if it's because he's more graceful and hasn't eaten it as often as me....or if it really is just a durable suit).

 

[fdog]

As a helpful post, 99.9% of all wetsuits are made from closed cell neoprene.

Closed cell is made from neoprene with tiny gas cells (bubbles) that are individual and non-interconnected. These cells provide insulation and buoyancy.

Open cell neoprene contains cells that are regular, and connected to each other and the outside of the material. This is just like a sponge in your kitchen sink. A wetsuit made from open cell would absorb water, lose all buoyancy and be cold because of water transfer.

Typical freediving wetsuits have the bare rubber surface of the closed-cell neoprene on the inside (or, on competition suits, on the outside too). Occasionally this bare surface will receive a urethane coating which makes it a bit slicker and gives it color, like the Henderson "Gold Core".


All the best, James

 

[ILDiver]

Closed cell is made from neoprene with tiny gas cells (bubbles) that are individual and non-interconnected. These cells provide insulation and buoyancy.

Open cell neoprene contains cells that are regular, and connected to each other and the outside of the material. This is just like a sponge in your kitchen sink. A wetsuit made from open cell would absorb water, lose all buoyancy and be cold because of water transfer.

This is not accurate. Open Cell Neoprene will NOT lose all buoyancy and is NOT cold. The only difference between open cell and closed cell is the surface of the rubber.

Open cell is cut and left untreated. So the exposed cells look like extremely tiny suction cups. The rubber grabs the skin extremely well. This requires a lube (conditioner or soap solution) to put the suit on.

Closed cell, the surface cells have been "closed" to make a smooth skin. ScubaPro and other manufacturers use smooth skin neoprene around the seals of their nylon lined suits. These are a little easier to put on than open cell suits but a full closed cell suit would still go on better with lube. A lot of freedivers get open cell inside and closed exterior suits.

Titanium lined suits are coated with a different material to help ease donning and doffing.

Using a freediving suit for scuba can be done, but not usually recommended. The neoprene is usually softer and they tend to wear out faster than a suit made for scuba

For any suit to be warm (Open cell, Closed cell, Nylon Lined, Scuba, Freedive) is needs to fit properly. The idea is to minimize the water transfer. The better a suit fits, the more snug it is in all areas, the warmer it will be. The new stretchy scuba suits go on great, but they tend to be colder because they stretch and let water exchange more easily. Trade offs....

 

[fdog]

This is not accurate. Open Cell Neoprene will NOT lose all buoyancy and is NOT cold. The only difference between open cell and closed cell is the surface of the rubber.<snip>

I believe you may have been given incorrect information. Wiki reference and Terrapin Wetsuit info


All the best, James

 

[bwerb]

I would, however, NEVER purchase a wetsuit made specifically for surfing if I intended to dive in

I did...best wetsuit I ever bought Form fitting, warm, articulated in the right places and I can surf in it too! What's not to love.

 

[ILDiver]

I believe you may have been given incorrect information. Wiki reference and Terrapin Wetsuit info


All the best, James

No, I have even read your own link. (Terrapin Wetsuit info) Which also states that closed cell neoprene referred to by wetsuit companies is also porous.

And your link continues with:

Porosity is the space between the cell walls that makes the structure of the sponge. If there was no porosity, there would be nothing but solid rubber, which would be a whole different material (O rings and latex). Permeability is the connection of pore spaces from one side to the other, which allows water to seep through the material. Permeability is created by constant deflection of closed cell sponge rubber.

What that says is, there are Pores in the rubber (the nitrogen bubbles). Permeability is whether water can get through the material. The description you gave is accurate to the proper terms, but not accurate to the definition used by the wetsuit companies. By proper terms all Neoprene is closed cell, a household sponge is open cell. The terms used by wetsuit companies for open cell and closed cell merely refer to the surface NOT the construction of the rubber. An open cell suit will NOT lose ALL buoyancy! Even if it absorbed water between the cells in open spaces, the water would not get into the nitrogen bubbles.

Now, all three of my suits (3mm Omer, 5mm Omer and 3mm Oceaner) all have open cell interior. The Omer suits have Nylon on the outside. The outside take 10 times as longer to dry than the open cell interior. From what I have seen, the water does not pass into/through the rubber. I get little to no water transfer unless I flush water into the suit. Most of the conditioner I put in the suit to put it on, is there when I take it off. Why would a company sell a suit made of sponge for diving?

 

[drbill]

I was out on the Peace boat at San Miguel Island thanks to Rod and the Roddenberry Dive Team last Saturday. Bottom temperatures were as low as 50 F on dives above 90 fsw. One of the women divers was wearing a 3/2 surf suit. Even I thought she was crazy, yet she seemed unfazed by the cool temperatures. My guess is she had serious nerve damage earlier in her life (just teasing), but she did at least three dives in it.

 

[fdog]

The Terrapin page states:

So what is " open cell" sponge rubber? In the Elastomeric Industry, it is expanded rubber that is designed specifically to be lightweight and rebound completely after compression. This type of sponge rubber is typically used for sound deadening or absorption, not wetsuits.

and

In the Elastomeric Industry (the companies that manufacture rubber for all its various uses), the technically correct term for closed cell sponge rubber is expanded rubber. <snip>The bun of closed cell sponge rubber is then aged and sliced into sheets. These sheets are the basis of ALL modern neoprene wetsuits.

You are quite correct that Picasso refers to the interior of their uncoated, left-sliced neoprene as "open cell surface". My <poorly articulated> point was that all wetsuits are made from closed cell neoprene.



All the best, James

 

[ILDiver]

Deleted...

 

[fdog]

...deleted as well...





All the best, James