So, you agree that they are not popular but not for safety reasons. Maybe recreational divers don't find them useful, pratical or comfortable. As stated throughout the thread, my main issue with BP/Ws, as far as recommending them to inexperienced divers is safety.
Perhaps I failed to make my self clear, or perhaps reading comprehension is not your strength. I was of course referring to the claim
that the AT-Pac failed due to safety reasons.
That's quite a statement you're making considering the company you're in here on SB.
Divers who have actually used a BP&W seldom consider them anything too special, complicated or "tech" only. There are of course exceptions, not everybody gets it.
You are a supplier of BP/Ws so you have a financial incentive to sell them because that's how you earn your living. Aren't you just disappointed that we haven't all started stockng and selling your equipment?
No. It's not my goal to have DSS stocked in every dive shop. While we have some very good dealers I'm a lot happier when I have first hand contact with the end user.
Just look at the shrinking number of dive shops in the U.S. Anybody that's betting their future success on having lots of diving retailers stock their goods needs to wake up and smell the coffee.
When I worked at a PADI/TDI facility, I sold plenty of BP/Ws from known manufacturers. However never to people at recreational entry levels OW thru Rescue.
Retailers love to sell the same diver 3-4 different BC's. The "starter BC" right out of BOW. The "Upgrade" after a couple more classes. Then the "tech" BC if the diver is still diving. Then this diver goes to the gear lecture for his first real tech class, often taught by an independent instructor only to learn he needs a BP&W.
Dive shops don't like BP&W's because:
The diver that buys a BP&W early in their career seldom needs 3-4 more BC's
The margins might be lower than most jackets.
Their main line (read regulator) supplier doesn't offer one, making reaching the annual recorder $$ more difficult
They require more knowledge on the part of the sales staff.
They can require more effort to set up, i.e. more work for the instructors
Many dive shops don't like tech divers and by extension what they perceive as "tech gear" precisely because many tech divers have grown disillusioned by the sales tactics they have encountered at the LDS.
When you "hate" your potential customers it's hard to succeed in selling much.
I'm getting confused here. Are they popular or are they not?
Let me help. Slow down. Go and read again what I wrote. BP&W's are gaining market share, (that means they are popular with people who dive) but they uncommonly stocked in the LDS. (That means dive shops don't often stock or sell them)
Since you don't like the Superlight.
Again, reading comprehension. I never said anything negative about KM, nothing.
I did say
comparing a Superlite to a BP&W was ridiculous. Once again,
the comparison was worthy of ridicule, not the goods.
example how about alternate air inflator hoses? I don't recommend them to the same public that I don't recommend BP/Ws to. I think they are great for experienced divers and I know a lot of people that use them. Most of the divers I know who use them do have either at least some minimal technical dive training or are instructor level recreational divers who use them on their personal kit, i.e. not the rig they use for teaching or guiding dives.
Now I'm confused. Are you saying you don't sell AirII's to newbies, but you do sell them to tech trained divers?
That's 180 from what happens around here. The AirII and all it's brethren are a classic "dealer option" sold at the LDS to the unsuspecting newbie. (Shazam! with an AIRII you need one less hose!!!)
If the diver actually remains in diving long enough to get tech training they almost universally regret buying the AirII and dump it.
Define "widely used". especially with regard to recreational and new divers.
I've sold 1000's of BP&W's, most with single tank wings. This distribution, ~70-80% single tank is pretty consistent based on the wing fabricators and retailers I've spoken with.
If these aren't being used for recreational diving then they aren't being used at all.
It's a question of he right equipment for the right people. Nobody has said they are unsafe. What some of us are saying is that they are less safe than a jacket type BCD.
Where does less safe end and unsafe start? I'll ask again, where are the stats to support your claim?
If backplates are either unsafe, or less safe one would expect at least some real evidence.
There are of course no stats to show that jacket BC and BP&W are
equally safe, or
equally unsafe, one cannot "prove" a negative.
I have no doubt that if such evidence existed my liability insurance underwriter would have concerns about it, these folks are the definition of risk adverse.
Tobin