Do I really need a computer?

[ZzzKing]

Hhmm. How about a $99 fare across the country? Or a $200 copy of Microsoft Office using Excel tables to design a structure (with Microsoft's disclaimer that it bears no responsibility for faulty algorigthms in their code). I had it happen with an Excel floating point error for a power station design. The calulations were correct but Excel gave the incorrect answer without a new service pack (that they also explain they have no obligation to notify you exists). Thank goodness it was a homework assignment instead of the real thing.

I am not aware of any engineers that use a stock Excel spreadsheet to do their design for them. You might ask your professor exactly how this exercise is preparing you for a design career.

You gotta love Microsoft, though. That's some awesome customer serveice there. They sell you faulty software and then charge you for service packs to make it work right. :hyper:

It's a good sign that you used your brain and realized that the computer was wrong and figured out how to deal with the problem rather than blindly following your machine's design. Hey, that sounds vaguely similar to some of the posts on in this thread, too...

 

[Randy43068]

I am not aware of any engineers that use a stock Excel spreadsheet to do their design for them. You might ask your professor exactly how this exercise is preparing you for a design career.

You gotta love Microsoft, though. That's some awesome customer serveice there. They sell you faulty software and then charge you for service packs to make it work right. :hyper:

It's a good sign that you used your brain and realized that the computer was wrong and figured out how to deal with the problem rather than blindly following your machine's design. Hey, that sounds vaguely similar to some of the posts on in this thread, too...

Are you telling me that's not how it works? Dang, I figured I'd plug some numbers into the thang and ... walla! I gotta design on my hands. <snickering>

I never understood how MS gets away with that business model either. They sell a package to us, at top dollar mind you, then you and I have to pay for the "upgrades" which are bug fixes. No wonder they're one of the richest companies around. The shame if it is, most of the corporate WORLD runs on MS platforms these days. Including many government installations. Personally, I find that frightning! But that's just me.

If one chooses NOT to use MS products, interoperability between disparate systems is difficult at best. But I'm getting off track.

NO you don't need a computer! Spend your money on other things.

 

[Randy43068]

I am not aware of any engineers that use a stock Excel spreadsheet to do their design for them. You might ask your professor exactly how this exercise is preparing you for a design career.

You gotta love Microsoft, though. That's some awesome customer serveice there. They sell you faulty software and then charge you for service packs to make it work right. :hyper:

It's a good sign that you used your brain and realized that the computer was wrong and figured out how to deal with the problem rather than blindly following your machine's design. Hey, that sounds vaguely similar to some of the posts on in this thread, too...

BB King rules...

 

[Goose75]

I am not aware of any engineers that use a stock Excel spreadsheet to do their design for them. You might ask your professor exactly how this exercise is preparing you for a design career....

I didn't go into power so I can't say what they actually use. I've worked in pressure vessel design, equipment design (i.e. lift beams, etc) and in composite materials and processes for aircraft. Excel and other off the shelf software was commonly used in all 3 industries. After all, what's the point of buying it if it isn't helpful in your work? The catch is that a Professional Engineer, Delegated Engineering Rep or other appointed individual gets to sign off that the means of design meets the standards. That makes that one person legally liable for other peoples work. It then goes to test to verify the result. Multiple sanity checks are performed before it ever reaches test but we shouldn't have to question the program code on our level.

 

[WarmWaterDiver]

I've certainly used MS Excel for design / design support work as well as a data analysis and troubleshooting tool, for the past 12 years in my occupation (we used Lotus 1-2-3 previous to that), so add me to the list of such engineers. I can introduce you to my coworkers too . . . it's a global company with a sizeable technical employee base.

My understanding is our competitive competitors also use MS Excel for similar functions - maybe our less competitive competitors don't, I don't benchmark against them, so I don't really know.

 

[Goose75]

I've certainly used MS Excel for design / design support work as well as a data analysis and troubleshooting tool, for the past 12 years in my occupation (we used Lotus 1-2-3 previous to that), so add me to the list of such engineers. I can introduce you to my coworkers too . . . it's a global company with a sizeable technical employee base.

My understanding is our competitive competitors also use MS Excel for similar functions - maybe our less competitive competitors don't, I don't benchmark against them, so I don't really know.

And I'm sure our experiences are the tip of the iceberg. The fact is we take our lives into the balance every day based on somebody's potentially faulty algorithm but then all of a sudden decide that typically more dependable dive computers are "risky". For those who dismiss computers. I think tables are great and by all means encourage others learn them, just don't perpetuate the belief that dive computers are inherently dangerous and then board a plane home.

 

[Charlie99]

I think tables are great and by all means encourage others learn them, just don't perpetuate the belief that dive computers are inherently dangerous and then board a plane home.

Or for an example a bit closer to home, don't use a computer controlled car.

The anti-computer crowd seem to think that the options are

1. Rely solely upon your brain and memory, or
2. Rely solely and blindly upon the dive computer.

The rational method is to use both your brain and your computer.

 

[Randy43068]

The question is.. "do I need a computer" The obvious answer is NO, one does not NEEd a dive computer.

Can one use it and the tables? Sure. Hey, if you have the money buy the best computer you can get. However, one still does not NEED one.

 

[boomx5]

Or for an example a bit closer to home, don't use a computer controlled car.

The anti-computer crowd seem to think that the options are

1. Rely solely upon your brain and memory, or
2. Rely solely and blindly upon the dive computer.

The rational method is to use both your brain and your computer.

Personally, I think if someone wants to use a computer and use it responsibly, then more power to them. However (except for some CCRB's which computer controlled), you do not need a computer to do multipule dives a day, dives in the decompression ranges, multilevel dives, multilevel decompression dives, etc. The issue for me is a computer will not do what I need it to and the ones that may come close will not do it very well or give the profiles I need. I bet if more people had better training, they may opt out of using a computer since this stuff is way to easy to do without one.

 

[Randy43068]

Personally, I think if someone wants to use a computer and use it responsibly, then more power to them. However (except for some CCRB's which computer controlled), you do not need a computer to do multipule dives a day, dives in the decompression ranges, multilevel dives, multilevel decompression dives, etc. The issue for me is a computer will not do what I need it to and the ones that may come close will not do it very well or give the profiles I need. I bet if more people had better training, they may opt out of using a computer since this stuff is way to easy to do without one.

well put.