Do dive shops let you put vindicator valves on rental tanks?

[tridacna]

I don’t see a downside. They’re cheap, easy to use, comfortable to grip and show whether your tank is on or off. Why this visceral reaction?

I still check my tank status by turning no matter what color is showing.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
But I also agree that one advantage of them is that the crew of a dive boat can ensure that a diver's gas is turned on at a glance without touching the knob. . . .

If it would help keep the crew away from my tank valve, then I'm all for it. Sometimes I am seated on a boat bench, all geared up and going through my check, which includes reaching back and checking the valve, when a crew member will see me reaching back and swoop in to try to "assist." "No, you don't understand," I say, as I wave him off. "Reaching my valve and checking that it's open is part of my pre-dive check."

 

[doctormike]

Yeah, this comes up a lot here.

The thing is that you KNOW that you are an advanced diver, a tech diver, an experienced diver, etc... But for the DM on the boat, especially if it's not one that you dive from regularly, they have no way of knowing that. I cut these guys a lot of slack, especially in Caribbean cattle boats. It must be terrifying, knowing that half of your customers are very inexperienced or rusty!

 

[W W Meixner]

I've only read a couple of pages regarding this question...and the answer unfortunately has little to do with red light/green light tank valve knobs...

Early training fundamentals refer us back to our pre-dive checks...check your valve(s)...ensure your tank valves are on full to lock...now the hand wheel will turn only one way...check the needle on your SPG (S)...breath all your second stage regulators...while monitoring the needles on your SPG (s)...have a pre-planned/pre-check ''system'' established with your dive partner...never ever start your charter by trying to prove that you know more than anyone else on the boat...

Make a formal...pre-practiced written list and have it laminated if need be...and use it...you'll never be embarrassed by encouraging someone else to do things the right way...

If technical training is in your future...especially if it includes rebreathers...your formal pre-dive check documents are your best insurance of climbing back onto the boat at the end of the dive...

Every dive gives us an opportunity to place our hard earned training into practice...demonstrate what you learned by following all the protocols...not by trying to be the first diver in the water...

Vindicator knobs were never intended to be a short-cut to following established pre-dive safety checks...

Safe Diving...Warren

 

[pauldw]

It's filled with 3300 psi and you're disassembling it on a boat filled with divers.............what could go wrong ??

I'm wondering that too, now. Today I actually tried retrofitting a vindicator knob. It didn't work, so I'm returning it (the green would not completely cover up the red when the valve was fully opened). But what really surprised me is that I'd assumed this would be an idiot proof operation--that the knob physically attached to metal that, when turned, affected air movement elsewhere in the first stage but not at the knob where I was messing around. I found, though, that when opening the valve without the knob apparently being tightened enough, I got high pressure air leakage from by the knob. I don't know enough about my gear to understand that, but I do understand that perhaps making that knob change isn't as innocuous as people may assume.

 

[guruboy]

I'm wondering that too, now. Today I actually tried retrofitting a vindicator knob. It didn't work, so I'm returning it (the green would not completely cover up the red when the valve was fully opened). But what really surprised me is that I'd assumed this would be an idiot proof operation--that the knob physically attached to metal that, when turned, affected air movement elsewhere in the first stage but not at the knob where I was messing around. I found, though, that when opening the valve without the knob apparently being tightened enough, I got high pressure air leakage from by the knob. I don't know enough about my gear to understand that, but I do understand that perhaps making that knob change isn't as innocuous as people may assume.

The nut that keeps the knob on has nothing to do with the seal. Your valve should probably be serviced.

 

[Diving Dubai]

I'm wondering that too, now. Today I actually tried retrofitting a vindicator knob. It didn't work, so I'm returning it (the green would not completely cover up the red when the valve was fully opened). But what really surprised me is that I'd assumed this would be an idiot proof operation--that the knob physically attached to metal that, when turned, affected air movement elsewhere in the first stage but not at the knob where I was messing around. I found, though, that when opening the valve without the knob apparently being tightened enough, I got high pressure air leakage from by the knob. I don't know enough about my gear to understand that, but I do understand that perhaps making that knob change isn't as innocuous as people may assume.

There are 9 different vindicator models depending on your valve, are you sure you had the right one for your valve type.

Replacing one isn't hard, and it shouldn't' cause a HP leak as you are just replacing the handwheel

I don’t see a downside. They’re cheap, easy to use, comfortable to grip and show whether your tank is on or off. Why this visceral reaction?

I still check my tank status by turning no matter what color is showing.

Exactly. I have them on all my tanks. The vindicator part is a side advantage, because of their design I find the larger handwheel is more comfortable than the cheap and nasty ones which often come as standard. As you say no real downside

 

[Diving Dubai]

But for the DM on the boat, especially if it's not one that you dive from regularly, they have no way of knowing that. I cut these guys a lot of slack, especially in Caribbean cattle boats. It must be terrifying, knowing that half of your customers are very inexperienced or rusty!

^^^ THIS!!^^^

I often roll my eyes when people complain about DM's, and I know they're not perfect, but for the most part what they do is for the benefit of the majority not the minority. I respect @Lorenzoid position but he's the minority and somewhat unusual. If he had to tell the same DM a second time, then he could be a bit miffed.

I do wish some people would put themselves in the DM's shoes as they (the DM) can be damned if they do and damned if they don't. Like you I've always given them lots of slack on their boat. I make sure they see me carry out an exaggerated pre breath, and they're happy. One less person to worry about.

When I'm DM'ing my personal "trick" is to assist people get into their kit and check their valve then.

Unless I absolutely know someone and their capabilities (even then a polite verbal check can be made) I have to be sure as it's my a$$ on the line too.

We all know there is often a large gulf between someone's personal opinion of their abilities and their actual abilities.

Even as an experienced diver I'm happy for someone to check me - even if it's a question (making me test breath again) as I'm as fallible as the next person - especially in the morning if my coffee intake has been lacking.

 

[divezonescuba]

I see the vindicator knobs as a second means of confirming that a valve is open or closed. It is just not physically possible for me to know whether a conventional knob valve is open or closed by visual observation of the knob. Perhaps others are more gifted than me.

Technical or sidemount valve drills can be dangerous. People are often just not used to the concept of the valve knobs being on opposite sides. Untrained divers, under stress, get confused. This is where the concept of two is one and one is none could be applied in this case.

I did have a student recently who got confused under stress and thought he had opened his indicator valve back up during a drill, but did not. If it is still red, the instructor knows it is not open, regardless of what motions the student makes. If the valve is green, you know it is open.

Without the indicator knobs, with new students, I periodically found myself physically checking the knobs to confirm to myself that the students had properly opened the valves up completely. The consequence of completing a valve drill with valves closed that should be open is dire. The technical instructor that originally trained me, said that if you do that, you have just killed yourself. I am not interested in having any of my students kill themselves.

On the subject of technical instructors that recommend / use them, there is me, the technical instructor trainer that trained me, and the instructor that trained one of the students that I inherited. So, no, I would not say that no technical instructors that recommend / use them.

On the subject of dms, I have personally been involved in several situations where the dm actually closed the valve on a tank while they were presumedly checking to see that they were open. In one case it was just before a negative entry and the diver almost drowned. I doubt that would have happened if an indicator knob was on the tank.

 

[noj3333]

As others have said, they're cheap and offer little (or no) downside... I don't have them, but maybe in the future I'll add them to my tanks...