Do certs matter to you?

[NAM001]

its not so much an issue of havng qualified as it is to have gone through the process to achieve the qualification. i have no doubt that 99% of the ow grads are qualified to get wet. how ever i would not go to them to show me how to trim and maintain neutral. some one who carries a adv nitrox, tech, dm ect has a lot more credibility because of prereq's and can back thier help with more experience not just theory. take for instance a rescue grad... after a couple of months how well can he perform his rescue training. should i feel safer with them as a buddy. probably not , buddy with an instructor that teached rescue and it is a different story. what the rescue grad can do for me is point out perhaps problems with the way i wear my gear. (crap crossing from one side to the other of the bc). when he says that i am a walking entanglement of hoses and the like and that if ...........i am inhibiting a rescuer. that preventive stuff has credibility. coming from an instructor (an active one ) it is even more credible. when i see a dm cert i dont worry that the holder lacks experience and exposure. so i will collect as meny c-cards as i can. no for flaunt but for documenting the completion of competancies and to some degree proof of exposure and at least one time adaquacy to preform advanced skills. what one does with thier skills after the training affects us all. the more training, the more repitition of basic skills that occurs. repatition restores and is makes proficiency. on the other hand would i have more faith in a 15 yo dm or a 40 yo dm. the c-card is a byproduct of training completion not a statement of eternal competancy
one last thing on proficiency... on ship we had navy divers, & i on 4 or less occasions saw them actually use thier training in 20 plus years. lots of theory little recent exposure and probably to this day have less dives than many ow grads. i would still go to them for a salvage matter.

regards all
]

kws

 

[grazie42]

A cert for me is the means to get access to the kind of diving I want to do. For basic holiday coctail-diving an AOW and Nitrox cert is all you need so thats what I have right now (and a Drysuit one because I live in Sweden and want to dive year-round)...thinking about wreck and cave certs because those are things (spec wreckdiving) that I enjoy.

What do those certs say about me as a diver? -Very little, IMHO.
I think that seeing the way a diver handles him/herself in the water is the only way to judge a diver. "The proof is in the pudding"

Do I mind that some people collect cards like I drink beer on a saturday night? -No, if thats what you want to do then go right ahead...

 

[rmediver2002]

We too get a rec card and a commercial card for our experience. Again it all means nothing. Its what you prove your level to be. You could be choking hose for two years or doing water jumps right away. You have to prove yourself.

Yeah you can buy a basic OW certification or Association of Diving Contractors certification after completion of second class school but nothing is awarded for free.

I did not have any civilian certification until the Army paid for instructor certification for a MWR support assignment the unit was supporting.

Jeff Lane

 

[jhelmuth]

Why would I ever want to teach, given that this would mean I'm signing onto the agencies that currently exist? (That is, unless I was to form a new one!)

Amen brother!

 

[jhelmuth]

*shakes head*

The level of respect (lack of) shown for certification and continuing education in this thread by some of our more experienced members disgusts me.

But I think with good reason.

 

[jhelmuth]

Clearly, it seems we all agree that certifications mean nothing. I would challenge that by asking if you felt that anyone who passed a DIR-F class (do they get a card?) was competent in your mind (IE - do you think that you'd respect them as a fellow diver even if you had never dove with them)? I'd have to say... yes. Reason: It is clear that the DIR-F (and all DIR levels) is not gratuitous like most every level in all the other agencies that I am aware of (PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA?). Maybe this is not the case in some of the other agencies which are more tech oriented. Do people "fail" to gain certification in other agencies by not having enough skill?
But, in any case, I would never bash the individuals who pass through these gratuitous classes. Its not fair to those who do have skills (and some do). The information is there and there are those people who take that seriously. But we also recognize how lame these certs are because of the people who do not take it seriously (and should probably not be divers).

I think the downfall of the agencies has probably been with the competition they've had with each other to be the dominant agency. I don't think that the standardization and reciprocity has necessarily been a good thing as it has made each agency equivalent and therefore they compete on numbers and $.

You know... I like Genesis' idea more and more. For it to have "teeth", it would also have to quickly garner a level of respect (like the GUE) that sets it apart from everyone else AND is accepted by the dive operations which make these certifications necessary.

 

[rmediver2002]

It is clear that the DIR-F (and all DIR levels) is not gratuitous like most every level in all the other agencies that I am aware of (PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA?). Maybe this is not the case in some of the other agencies which are more tech oriented.

The information is there and there are those people who take that seriously. But we also recognize how lame these certs are because of the people who do not take it seriously (and should probably not be divers).

I place as much blame if not more on the divers themselves, if they are in fact a danger to themselves or others.

Certification agencies are like (well should be like) a library of knowledge, all divers from super-master-blaster-instructor-training-coordinater-blah-blah-blah down to the newest OW need to continue to refine the skills known, and just as importantly searching out new sources of knowledge... One of the best is looking at the mistakes or problems of the past and thinking about ways to solves them.

Anyone who fails to train is going to lose skills, training for diving is diving...

Jeff Lane

 

[Rick Murchison]

Certs? I don't need no steenking certs.
I brush my teeth 2 times a day & floss at least a half dozen. :biggrin:


This is the only one I have, been all I needed: http://www.angelfire.com/ca/divers3/images/card.jpg
Good conversation piece, too.

Aha! That looks like mine just before its final trip through the washing machine.
Rick

 

[Genesis]

I place blame for this in two places:

1. The resorts, boats, cave owners (including the state) and others who have decided to turn a scuba certifcation into the equivalent of a license. Instead of objectively describing the hazards of a given dive and then insisting on iron-clad liability releases, and letting the chips fall where they may (and allowing Darwin to pick up the pieces), what the "consumption" side of the industry has done is instead demand your "diver license" to their satisfaction. As an example, try to find a boat that will take you to the SG without an AOW card. Good luck. I called around a couple of months ago and they all, to a single boat, wanted the card. They would not accept a logbook showing any amount of experience (not even technical, deco dives!) in place of it, nor did they care if I had any actual dives beyond my AOW card at all. No card, no dive - period.

This leads to....

2. The supply-side (instruction) of the industry issuing the certs to those who pay for them, because the demand has to be filled.

If you want to solve this problem, you have to get rid of the idea that "certifications" are credentials. They are not intended to be and we need to stop treating them as if they are.

This applies to all of the local dive shops, boats, landowners, etc.

Until then the problem won't go away - the shops, boat-owners, cave landowners and agencies are all complicit in this. Nobody gets a pass on this one.

 

[Rick Murchison]

It is clear that the DIR-F (and all DIR levels) is not gratuitous like most every level in all the other agencies that I am aware of (PADI, NAUI, SSI, YMCA?).

You guys just slay me with your arrogance. Gratuitous? GMAFB! These broad brush slams of "everyone else" but GUE grow tiresome, and do nothing constructive. If you have a specific gripe about a specific card from a specific agency, let's hear it. There are *some* that shouldn't exist, no doubt about that, but your "awareness" is obviously limited.
---------------
Now, to the question... of the cards I hold, the YMCA Scuba Diver card, the NAUI Advanced Rescue, SSI DCSI, NASDS OWI, and every card from IANTD, NSS/CDS, TDI and NACD have meaning. The rest are pretty much "warm & breathing" cards.
Rick