DM skills

[TSandM]

The DM course focuses on achieving a higher degree of perfection in the core scuba skills.

Oh, come on, Andy. You and I both know that achieving "demonstration quality" skills while solidly planted on the bottom of a pool has NOTHING to do with becoming a more accomplished, competent, confident or useful diver.

Today, I dove with a DMC with beautiful buoyancy and quietness in the water. And you know what? He didn't learn it in his DM class. He saw another diver show those qualities, and interrogated HER about how she learned them (wasn't me). DM has nothing to do with buoyancy control or stillness, or precise maneuvering in the water. And in fact, I have no idea how people who haven't learned those things elsewhere have the skills to be good DMs.

 

[DevonDiver]

Just that DM, out of all the PADI con-ed courses, is the one that goes back to basics and seeks to improve them against a definable standard. The degree to which those core skills are perfected is ultimately determined by the mindsets and motivation of both the instructor and the DM candidate.

For me as an instructor, I expect a DM candidate to develop and utilise 'demonstration quality' skills in all aspects of their diving - not just when assisting in a swimming pool. It's not something that you only 'turn on' within specific circumstances. It is who you are, and how you act, as a diver.

In my earlier post, I wasn't trying to define DM training as superior to other forms of development. It was merely an attempt to identify what benefits could exist. In doing so, it remained unspoken that an equal, or greater, amount of development can be attained simply by the diver having a mindset that strove for progressive development and perfection in their approach to diving.

For such a diver, any course can be a fantastic learning opportunity - and the DM course particularly would enable a high degree of focus on the essential core elements. Likewise, for a diver that doesn't strive to perfect themselves, no course -including DM- is going to make a noticeable difference to their diving capabilities.

 

[k ellis]

For such a diver, any course can be a fantastic learning opportunity - and the DM course particularly would enable a high degree of focus on the essential core elements. Likewise, for a diver that doesn't strive to perfect themselves, no course -including DM- is going to make a noticeable difference to their diving capabilities.

This is so true. I agree that like anything else in life a person has to enter the course with the desire to better themselves. Though it really does not do a whole lot that a diver can not do on its own its kind of like going to excercise. You can push your self hard or you can hire a trainer to push you hard doing the same excercises. The diffrence in DM is though you learn on your own you get a standing ovation from fellow divers. You take the DM program you reap the beniefit of being able to assist Instructors in teaching new diver candidates and watching them excel (Or sadly sometimes up and quit)

I think dive master courses are excellent in that it reaffirms the skills in a divers mind who may have certified years ago and since they dive all the time probably never had given any thought since to the basic skills. Some divers like myself have never had a mask kicked off or an OOA to date. Its good to just refresh every once in a while and do it in a fun environment with fellow divers.

I enjoy the heck out of being a dive master candidate because of the most important role in dive mastering. Watching new divers excel!

 

[rjack321]

My DM program would have flunked me for doing anything on my knees. Not every DM course/agency/instructor expects "demonstration" skills in isolation on your knees. When I demo-ed something it was like I dive - off the bottom.

(I actually never really went through my DM "skills" one by one in exact sequence. I dive with my instructors all the time at a high level anyway and basically just co-taught classes with them for awhile, all the skills were there.)

"Leadership" sounds really fluffy and easy, but the reality is that you must have the physical skills in order to have control and create the class or boat atmosphere under which you can lead.

 

[divermike1011]

More deep thoughts...

Peter, I don't disagree with you, but I want to point out why such "pointless" skills are still useful. Years ago I went to cross-brach seminar where an Army Sgt.Maj. gave a talk about Ranger school (which I should point out I have never attended) and one of his many points was, this school teaches leadership and weeds out people who quit. We could do it with tanks, we could do it with planes, etc. etc, but we do it with infantry skills because it's cheap and what we're evaluating is how people respond to stress. Since I think that's the goal of the gear exchange and the rescue swim I think it still has value because you don't have to do a great deal of planning or preparation you just need water (can't remember the depth off the top of my head) and two or more students. If I can stress you and see how you respond I can then do mission specific tasks later. If you can't handle the stress we've wasted a lot less time with a gear exchange then by setting up some kind of more realistic scenario.

Michael

 

[Ste Wart]

I suppose some of it depends on how good a self-starter you are. I do think the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving (the PADI DM textbook) is a very reasonable book to read -- there is a LOT of information in it, and although I don't agree with every paragraph, you can still learn a lot.

It's a nice entry to dive theory. Personally I don't think I really got a handle of the mechanics of deco theory until I started tech diving. That said I'm still no master of it. But PADI do put forward the information in such a way that every one can use it. And that is the key aspect of all their courses

I'm not sure that calculating the net buoyancy of a lead block one foot on each side has a practical application to recreational diving (although, for all I know, it may to commercial diving). There IS a bit more decompression theory in the DM class than there is in the standard recreational curriculum, but if you want to combine in-water skills development with decompression ideas, take an Intro to Tech or Fundies class. You'll get more of both.

I'm never really understood how a Fundies class is so life changing. If you pass you pass. But then all it shows is that you had good buoyancy in the first place. Could someone explain what makes them so amazing? This is not GUE bashing, I really don't understand.
While there are skills and techniques that are new and difficult in all other endeavours of diving, eg tech, cave, rebreather etc. Why does the fundies course stand out?
Bear in mind that the simple of answer of 'just take one and see' is not likely as I don't agree with the equipment mantra.

There are no "DM techniques" for improved situational awareness -- you may get some tips from your instructors or older DMs on likely things to watch for, but overall, what teaches you the awareness is having to struggle through monitoring new divers, with all the unpredictable things they do, from putting their gear together backwards to losing total buoyancy control at a moment's notice. You learn through getting the pants scared off you, and you get more and more vigilant

The best advice I ever recieved on this, was after I started work as a DM.
" treat everyone like a muppet until they prove you otherwise"
It may seem simplistic and even a tad derogatory, but it's amazing how well it works. Trust no-one in the water and you'll quickly pick-up DM skills.

 

[JaneMitchell]

As an OWSI, I've dived with quite a few DMs over the years. Some have been good, some not so good. I think there's a balance between the technical skills and the mental ability to deal with stuff. Some people are always going to be better technically then others ... that doesn't mean they can't dive if they've got a good head on their shoulders. Courses and certifications are great but I think the diving is what's important. If you want to be a DM - do the course. If you want to be a better diver ... go diving and do the courses along the way when you need to or when you work out the next level you want to start practicing!

 

[TSandM]

I can totally understand the underwater stress exercises as a suitability or competency test to evaluate someone who is going to be responsible for others in the water. And I DO think that the DM class can help prepare one for guiding or assisting with classes. My only point was that doing those exercises isn't likely to improve your own diving skills, for the purpose of diving for your own pleasure.

One of the big reasons I push the Fundamentals class is that it is one of the only classes I know of where a single tank, purely recreational diver will encounter the examples and the standards that are typical of technical classes. Many recreational divers will rarely or never have seen someone who can be utterly quiet in the water, or perform all the standard diving skills that way. They may not have worked with anyone who helped them move weight around to balance their setup. They may not have had any instructor who knew, or utilized, alternate propulsion methods for precise positioning. And it's likely that they have rarely practiced emergency procedures, except in a Rescue class.

Fundamentals offers all of those things to the single tank diver, albeit with a fairly strict equipment requirement (which does put off a great many people, which is a shame -- I certainly wish there were another class, of predictable quality, which people could take in whatever gear they normally use!).

Although my experiences are largely related to the North American West Coast, I would say that in the majority of cases in my world, people are taught pretty rudimentary skills in OW, get very little polish in AOW and specialty classes, and get some good information, but no skills polish, in Rescue. And then they are done, as far as personal diving skills go -- there is simply no place else to GO. Too many sign up for divemaster, hoping to become just plain better divers, but skills development isn't there, either. I have seen a lot of posts like these over the last six years. I wish there were more options, but sending such people to cavern, Intro to Tech (which can vary WILDLY in quality) or Fundamentals is the best I can do.

 

[Peter Guy]

Diverm wrote

Since I think that's the goal of the gear exchange and the rescue swim I think it still has value because you don't have to do a great deal of planning or preparation you just need water (can't remember the depth off the top of my head) and two or more students. If I can stress you and see how you respond I can then do mission specific tasks later. If you can't handle the stress we've wasted a lot less time with a gear exchange then by setting up some kind of more realistic scenario.

Thank you for taking the time to respond -- BUT here are my counters to your argument:

a. Gear Exchange -- Yes, it does task load and it is easy to setup -- and we do want to task load people to see how they respond. The "official" explanation of this "skill" is as follows:

The primary goal of the equipment exchange is problem solving, but with an added level of unanticipated problems and performance under stress. Because the exercise creates an environment with unforeseeable difficulties, candidates have to apply their experience and knowledge creatively, to meet the demands of the moment. This is an important aspect of leading divers and solving problems on the spot. This exercise is a problem solving evaluation and development tool only.

It has no other application.(emphasis mine)

PADI 2008 IM*

The key, to me, is the last sentence from the PADI IM -- "It has no other application." And I believe that is correct. OTOH, must not there be some other way to stress a DM applicant and require "problem solving" that HAS a real world application? How about having a DM applicant shoot an SMB, while hovering 2 feet from the deepest part of the confined water, with a flooded mask and another then coming up to the candidate OOA? Would not being able to maintain a hover while shooting an SMB have real world application for a DM? Would not being able to do one thing while dealing with a flooded mask have real world application? Would not being able to maintain doing a task while being interrupted for an OOA scenario have real world application? Especially now, when PADI has forbidden the teaching of Buddy Breathing -- having this contrived exercise is just not where the teaching time should be spent -- IMHO!

I firmly believe there are so many better ways to reach that "primary goal of the equipment exchange...[of] problem solving, but with an added level of unanticipated problems and performance under stress."

b. Rescue Scenario: Again, from the PADI 2008 IM*:

The Diver Rescue Assessment and
Development has three goals. First, it evaluates effectiveness to assure that candidates can perform a rescue if necessary in an emergency. Second, it improves the quality of rescue skills to
be more role model for assisting with the PADI Rescue Diver course. Third, it forms the foundation of demonstration quality rescues required during the IDC/IE.
...
To pass as an effective rescue, you must be able to answer “yes” to all the following:
...
• Did the rescuer protect the victim’s airway with no or very few interruptions?
• Did the rescuer maintain regular ventilations with no or very few interruptions?

Again, my issue with this exercise is that it is teaching the wrong things! It is my understanding (and please someone, correct me if I am wrong) that "modern" procedure says DO NOT spend time doing Mouth-to-Mouth unless, and only if, compressions are also being done. So in this scenario, PADI is actually teaching something that may kill the victim instead of possibly saving her. This, to me, is absolutely wrong.

IF my IE examiner was correct when he told me (us) this was NOT a timed exercise and to be very slow and methodical, then this whole exercise is wrong and should be eliminated. At the very least, it should NOT be taught with the 5-second breathing since that is absolutely contra-indicated.

Somehow I don't think even the Army uses scenarios to test stress that are designed to teach soldiers the WRONG WAY to do things!

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* Using the 2008 IM because it still has the explanations of the "why" of the exercises.

 

[Ste Wart]

b. Rescue Scenario: Again, from the PADI 2008 IM*:

Again, my issue with this exercise is that it is teaching the wrong things! It is my understanding (and please someone, correct me if I am wrong) that "modern" procedure says DO NOT spend time doing Mouth-to-Mouth unless, and only if, compressions are also being done. So in this scenario, PADI is actually teaching something that may kill the victim instead of possibly saving her. This, to me, is absolutely wrong.

IF my IE examiner was correct when he told me (us) this was NOT a timed exercise and to be very slow and methodical, then this whole exercise is wrong and should be eliminated. At the very least, it should NOT be taught with the 5-second breathing since that is absolutely contra-indicated.

Somehow I don't think even the Army uses scenarios to test stress that are designed to teach soldiers the WRONG WAY to do things!

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* Using the 2008 IM because it still has the explanations of the "why" of the exercises.

It's not a 'rescue' though. It's a PADI drill. It's application in real -life could be totally different; as I know exactly what I would do if a rescue scenario came up ( there would be a knife applied to a few shoulder straps and some high intensity flippering!)
What the skill does do is provide a method. Keep it slow, keep it right. Show that you can follow a procedure. Same as with anything else in diving, stop, think, breath, act.
With the template PADI gives us we can work from there in a real-life situation. We have our approach, our contact and out check for breathing. Then what we do getting that person to shore is up to us. Once reaching shore we can re-intiate the correct protocol i.e call for help, CPR etc. The repeated PADI demo is simply to get it into our sub-concious so we can use it when required.