DM skills

[k ellis]

Seriously, you are not implying that this is a useful or reasonable skill to practice?

What I am implying is that the more underwater skills that require one to learn to problem solve underwater would build confidence. When a person learns that taking your gear completely off and buddy breathing while doing it then in a real life emergency they are less likley to panic. It doesnt mean they wont it just helps build underwater emergency confidence.

 

[TSandM]

I agree that it is an underwater stress test, having nearly drowned myself doing it But I had read your comment as saying you learn "useful" skills in the DM class, like that one . . . I don't think it's every going to be useful, and I hope nobody ever reaches a point of having to buddy breathe again, in today's world.

 

[k ellis]

I agree that it is an underwater stress test, having nearly drowned myself doing it But I had read your comment as saying you learn "useful" skills in the DM class, like that one . . . I don't think it's every going to be useful, and I hope nobody ever reaches a point of having to buddy breathe again, in today's world.

LOL I was intending on the meaning being useful as too show first off its ok to remove gear underwater in an entanglement. It also because of the buddy breathing shows you can be calm and collective while not having a regulator in your mouth and still accomplish goals all the while getting it going in a sequence. (Breathe..... remove gear place in front, pause and wait for reg and breathe, resume placing gear on then pause again....)

Useful in the real world I should surely hope it never becomes a neccesity as if your underwater and someone runs out of air it would be much easier to use the octo and surface (Or at worst buddy breathe to surface) but swapping gear just to swap would be a long process that has a bunch of extra steps in it.

One thing about this though is it teaches patience. As mentioned by other posters alot of people just cant do it for their own personal reasons. But when they finaly get to a point they can they feel much more confident underwater that little things like a lost regulator (Of which we know we would do the sweep or reach behind and follow the octo) is not as bad as it would seem.

Its more for confidence then anything else but it does prove useful in teaching confidence and patience that an underwater emergency does not have to be a panick situation.

 

[Peter Guy]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- the two "stress" skills in the DM course are stupid and should be dropped. Those two "stress skills" are the buddy breathing gear exchange AND the "rescue" scenario of doing "rescue breaths" while towing/stripping a diver.

Buddy breathing/gear exchange -- Come on -- there MUST BE more real life, task loading, skills -- in fact I know there are since I have done them. For example, no mask, air sharing, timed ascent (again, NOT a real life situation but at least one that combines real life issues) -- line running with getting entangled in a line -- or, as was done in a wreck workshop, line running with a blind exit (which showed all of us we would have died in a real event). At least these skills have some relevance to guiding, diving -- AND THEY REQUIRE ACTUAL DIVING SKILLS!

Rescue Scenario -- Again, who are we kidding? As it is now, THE REAL PROTOCOL is to give two "rescue breaths" and then get the person out of the water as fast as possible. The WORST THING you can do is to try to give breaths while in the water, thus slowing down the exit and the possible chance to start compressions (which can't be done in the water). So what we are teaching DMs is how to do something THAT WILL KILL THE PATIENT in the real world!! What sense is there to that?

 

[haumana ronin]

The focus of a divemaster class is leadership -- it's about keeping an eye on people, whether you are guiding them or assisting an instructor. The internship dives are very good for developing situational awareness for monitoring other divers.

**CUT**

If you want to improve diving SKILLS, an Intro to Tech or cavern or Fundies class is where you want to go. There is a definite limit to what you will be taught in the mainstream, recreational curriculum, and the common denominator is fairly low.

For the most part TSandM hit the hammer on the head. There are however a few things in the class you can do without taking the class that are benieficial. You learn alot of neat things in it like physics and you reaffirm alot of what you already know. If your not interested in leadership in scuba then it would be for the most part a waste of money but you may enjoy watching the dive master video and reading the encyclopedia of diving. You will be amazed at what all you really dont think about every time you go diving that dive master will teach you.

**CUT**

In short dont sell the course short even if you dont plan to lead one day it does have strong practical components that every diver should know and thank about in advance.

Should they be? Yes.

Does the course make them one? Maybe, a little tiny bit.

So the DM class gives:

• No or the tiniest skill increase - booo
• Better situational awareness - which counts as a skill IMHO. Is there some cool DM technique to it?
• Some dive theory - could be useful in unexpected situations
• General knowledge - could help with dive planning?

I have read on this board that the different "big" agency DM programs are about the same. Are they? I am not married to PADI so are there other agency options? (not a PADI bash ) NAUI's MSD seems pretty decent. Does it make you a better diver or buddy?

Should I just read the book for the theory and knowledge, and then practice situational awareness on my own? Is there a "NAUI MSD book?"

I definitely see Fundies and Tech in the future.

I think this thread makes me want to start a new thread. Let me think about it a bit...

:zen:

 

[ScubaDocER]

I've said it before, and I'll say it again -- the two "stress" skills in the DM course are stupid and should be dropped.

I could not agree with you more Peter. To reinforce real world scenarios and circumstances seems to be a more intelligent approach for an aspiring DM. Realistic task loading reinforces good habits. I understand the intent behind the gear swapping skill, just not a practical skill that I can think of in a true diving environment.

 

[ScubaDocER]

I have read on this board that the different "big" agency DM programs are about the same. Are they? I am not married to PADI so are there other agency options? (not a PADI bash ) NAUI's MSD seems pretty decent. Does it make you a better diver or buddy?

Should I just read the book for the theory and knowledge, and then practice situational awareness on my own? Is there a "NAUI MSD book?"

I have never been a PADI DM nor taught a PADI DM class so I will have to leave that portion of your question to those who have. I have taught a NAUI MSD class and a NAUI DM class. There is indeed a MSD book that covers a great deal of information from dive physics, dive theory, and dive equipment just to mane a few. It is very thorough and quite in depth. The concept is to introduce the academics in this class, so that there is more time to devote to developing leadership skills in the DM class. It is a philosophical approach to creating a DM, no better or worse than any other agency necessarily. As an Instructor, I like it though.

To address your question as to whether it makes you a better diver I think you have to define what you mean by better. Especially at the DM level. Some would define better in terms of in water abilities, i.e., buoyancy, trim, comfort with gear, propulsion techniques, etc. Some would define it in terms of leadership skills, i.e., diver awareness, ability to lead a dive, ability to assist the Instructor, ability to demonstrate skills at an appropriate level, etc. My opinion is that most DM classes focus on the latter more than the former.

I agree with TSandM that the development of in water skills can be obtained through an agency that teaches or focuses on that, or through a very good mentor. DM classes tend to focus on developing leadership abilities, not necessarily on in water skills. That certainly is not an absolute.

 

[Vicksburg Diver]

Speaking personally, as a DM, I found that the DM program married all the skills I had learned in OW, AOW, Rescue and then required you to be able to effectively teach/demo pool and classroom. This requires you to be a very good diver in order to effectively monitor, assist and teach/pass on knowledge.

My biggest issue is with the AOW being taken right behind OW and then students feeling they are truly "Advanced Divers" when in reality, they know just enough to get into trouble.

But, back to the inital post. Does the DM make you a better diver? My answer is "yes". But, you have to be very accomlished before entering the program and it magnifies and polishes you.

 

[TSandM]

I suppose some of it depends on how good a self-starter you are. I do think the Encyclopedia of Recreational Diving (the PADI DM textbook) is a very reasonable book to read -- there is a LOT of information in it, and although I don't agree with every paragraph, you can still learn a lot.

I'm not sure that calculating the net buoyancy of a lead block one foot on each side has a practical application to recreational diving (although, for all I know, it may to commercial diving). There IS a bit more decompression theory in the DM class than there is in the standard recreational curriculum, but if you want to combine in-water skills development with decompression ideas, take an Intro to Tech or Fundies class. You'll get more of both.

There are no "DM techniques" for improved situational awareness -- you may get some tips from your instructors or older DMs on likely things to watch for, but overall, what teaches you the awareness is having to struggle through monitoring new divers, with all the unpredictable things they do, from putting their gear together backwards to losing total buoyancy control at a moment's notice. You learn through getting the pants scared off you, and you get more and more vigilant

Honestly, I can't imagine trying to be an effective DM for open water students without the in-water skills I got elsewhere. The DMC working with us today was remarking that he is perturbed that, when he has to turn around, he needs to swim a circle, and while he's doing so, the students may be doing all kinds of disastrous things. Whereas I can pivot and back kick in front of them, and keep BOTH eyes on them continuously.

It is my personal belief that one should come to the DM class with very well polished personal skills and a lot of experience and composure in the water, because you will need it.

 

[DevonDiver]

This is a difficult question to answer.... mostly because the development of any diver is primarily dictated by their individual mindset.

The DM course focuses on achieving a higher degree of perfection in the core scuba skills. As we all (should) know, high quality core skills are the biggest determining factor in a diver's overall ability. That said, any diver with a mindset that demands improvement and perfection will also spend time and effort to develop and improve their core skills after their actual training course is completed.

Being a DM also enables further development through the act of teaching. It enables, but it does not automatically provide. Again, it is down to the mentality and mindset of the DM. From my experience, teaching a subject enables someone to look at the subject from a more critical vantage point. When a student encounters difficulties, then the educator has to examine the content, understand it, and problem-solve a solution to communicating and sharing that subject. That leads to a deeper personal understanding for the educator.