DM skills

[Ste Wart]

Trace,



To take a fundamentals course before an IANTD CCR would be counter-productive. For 2 reasons.

Firstly I would have to go through the rigmarole of having to review OC equipment configuration. Which I am already happy with, but which is not going to be necessary for anything involving an Inspiration Rebreather ( which if I'm correct GUE don't teach). I am already going to be task-loaded with having an alien set-up on my body, why would I want to re-design my current views twice in short succession?

Fundies is OC. From the hour I've already spent on the Inspiration there is nothing in any OC circuit course that is going to help me in the CCR world. I've always been the diver who will use his lungs to his maximum in buoyancy control, for that my friend Mercy had the joy of watching me face-plant his unit into the sea bed several times. That is something I can only do myself.

For me the course will be the step back I need. I'm going to be back in nursery school re-working all my OC skills to fit into a CCR mould.

 

[boulderjohn]

b. Rescue Scenario: Again, from the PADI 2008 IM*:

Again, my issue with this exercise is that it is teaching the wrong things! It is my understanding (and please someone, correct me if I am wrong) that "modern" procedure says DO NOT spend time doing Mouth-to-Mouth unless, and only if, compressions are also being done. So in this scenario, PADI is actually teaching something that may kill the victim instead of possibly saving her. This, to me, is absolutely wrong.

While I do disagree in large part with this entire scenario, there is some logic to this for two reasons. 1) The idea that mouth-to-mouth is useless unless compressions are being done is based on the premise that a non-breathing victim is not circulating blood, either, so nothing you put in is going anywhere. There is, however, an exception to this: there is sometimes a beating heart and circulation in the case of a drowning victim. 2) With drowning victims, sometimes the mouth-to-mouth process will cause the victim to vomit and resume breathing.

I can understand that.

I have therefore always taught that this is something to do when there is no hope of getting the person to CPR in time and you are hoping one of the two sometimes scenarios will take place. That, however, turns out to be officially the wrong thing to teach. In an email exchange with PADI, I gave what I thought was an absurd scenario: you have brought an unconscious diver to the surface 5 feet from the anchor line--do you begin this scenario, or do you get the diver on the boat as fast as possible for CPR? I was told that you are to begin this scenario, even though it greatly delays the beginning of CPR and possible AED use.

That is the part I can't understand.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

John,

The United States Lifesaving Association would tell you to get the diver out of the water as quickly as possible and begin quality life support measures. Who are you going to believe? Professional rescuers or a scuba organization that teaches diving for fun?

I've never employed rescue techniques learned in scuba courses in any real-world rescue, but rather used the lifeguarding approach. I always considered dive rescue techniques taught by sport diving agencies to be "dicking around" other than those for rescuing a toxing diver.

Training agencies seem to worry about the process of the rescue rather than the results of the rescue. Lifeguards are big on results. I'm 4 out of 5 - personally.

What you pointed out is one of the reasons that I encourage my DM students to take a good lifeguard class involving scuba rescue.

 

[discokat]

What I do think is that it provides a high degree of stress, and learning to deal with stress is a valuable skill for anyone who is going to be supervising.

I think learning to deal with stress is the most valuable skill any diver can acquire. Stuff is going to happen down there that will tax your mental & physical capabilities and learning to handle stress without panicking is foremost in helping you deal with any potential emergency situation. That being said stress management can be taught in a variety of ways outside of diving but it is good to have something like this taught in every dive class taken.

I'm incredibly thankful both my dive buddy and myself have proven ourselves to be well suited for stressful situations and this has helped enormously in our limited dive experiences. Sometimes more than one potentially dangerous situation can occur during a dive and being calm and collected during these encounters can be crucial in getting out of the situation with minimal damage.

 

[Peter Guy]

John -- My personal physician told me something similar regarding drowning victims -- that is, breaths can help. It seems to me the key is that giving a couple of immediate breaths to try to trigger a breath response makes sense -- THEN if no response, get them out of the water as quickly as possible.

BUT, the exercise, at least as detailed during my IE, seems to be absolutely contrary to any type of good medical/rescue practice. And that, I submit is just wrong. We should NOT be teaching people to deliberately do the wrong thing.

 

[randytay]

Fruit analogies don't work for me. Try a Durian fruit and you'll see why there is no need to sample everything in this world.

Hey, even Durian has the many varieties. Someone who had a durian before may feel they don't have a need to sample the D24, that is until they try one

 

[boulderjohn]

John -- My personal physician told me something similar regarding drowning victims -- that is, breaths can help. It seems to me the key is that giving a couple of immediate breaths to try to trigger a breath response makes sense -- THEN if no response, get them out of the water as quickly as possible.

BUT, the exercise, at least as detailed during my IE, seems to be absolutely contrary to any type of good medical/rescue practice. And that, I submit is just wrong. We should NOT be teaching people to deliberately do the wrong thing.

I am right there with you. If I were in a real situation, I would only do rescue breaths if I were so far from real rescue that it was my only hope.